Caryl Posted July 5, 2009 Report Share Posted July 5, 2009 Anyone had any experience with these? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twinkles Posted July 5, 2009 Report Share Posted July 5, 2009 i know they don't work without power, so you'll freeze in a powercut and the pellets make great cat litter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zev Posted July 5, 2009 Report Share Posted July 5, 2009 And you can only put pellets in the firebox nothing else, it is feed by a hopper, hence the need for electricity, so if you have no power, or no pellets - you freeze! I do not know how many pellet manufacturers there are, either, but if they decide to stop making them, you are up the creek without a paddle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted July 5, 2009 Report Share Posted July 5, 2009 They are very efficient and throw out a lot of heat. A few years ago there was a mad rush on building consents to install them and then a mad rush to replace them because they made a lot of noise with the fans that were being used. I understand that they have now fixed that problem. As stated the two main reservations seem to be the fact that they will not operate in a power cut and they will only burn the pellets that are provided by one supplier. They do throw out some heat and are an approved clean burning appliance in this clean air zone. Not sure if they are available with or approved with a wet back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted July 5, 2009 Report Share Posted July 5, 2009 They can also be thermostatically controlled and controlled on a timer. Good luck doing that with a log burner. I'd personally prefer a pellet fire if I didn't have possibly good access to cheap wood and p*a*llets. The ones I've seen the fan isn't annoying at all, just a quiet purr and you can get equipment to run the fire off a car battery or similar if there's a power outage. But...the odds of a power outage longer than 12 hours is pretty small, harden up and grab a blanket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zev Posted July 5, 2009 Report Share Posted July 5, 2009 If you can get ahold of Consumer Magazine, or know someone who has an online key, there was an article about them a couple of years ago. I printed it out and will see if I can find it for you, but work has canceled it's subscription and I cannot access it at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caryl Posted July 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2009 We were looking at them at a Home Show at the weekend and were impressed. We realise they don't go if there is a power cut, as the man demonstrating them pointed that out. The fan was running on the one they had going and, although a little noisier than the one on our gas fire, it was not objectionable (of course it was a large and noisy stadium too so perhaps in a quiet room it may be worse). Pellets are made by quite a few companies now and more are looking into it (including a local company here). Since they are approved by the government, and considered environmentally friendly, I think they will not stop making the pellets. They certainly appear to be cheaper to run than our gas fire. Gas in the South Island is way more expensive than you pay in the North Is. :evil: With 3 price rises in the past 12 months we are looking into alternatives. We have heat pumps elsewhere in the house but we like the look of flames. Besides, we have a hearth and brick wall up behind it and if we removed that we would have to get more carpet and re-wallpaper! I think I will ring the local supplier and ask if he can let me see one of his satisfied customer's fires in situ and see for myself. Zev, I think I can find a Consumer (library has them) but don't have much faith in their tests. It would be interesting to see what they said though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southerrrngirrl Posted July 6, 2009 Report Share Posted July 6, 2009 Don't know anything about pellet fires but I say you can't beat the warmth from a fire. We have a woodburner and a heat pump in our house. During winter, we end up spending all our our time near the fire (kitchen/dining area) as opposed to the lounge where the heat pump is. Only venture to the lounge if I absolutely have to, ie to watch fav show on tv. They sound like a good idea though. Whats the initial set up cost, much the same as a woodburner I would expect?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jude Posted July 6, 2009 Report Share Posted July 6, 2009 What are the running costs of pellet fires? I understood they were 'reasonably' economical compared to other forms of heating but I recently overheard two women discussing how expensive the pellets were. Does anyone know??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whetu Posted July 6, 2009 Report Share Posted July 6, 2009 Very interesting. We don't own our home so I have never thought much about permanent home heating options. This thread has prompted me to take a look at the Consumer article (I subscribe to the online version). I have quoted an extract from the Consumer article below. It's only a small extract and it helps to clarify some of the issues here, so I think I'm allowed to quote it (as long as it's properly credited). Pellet burners are one of the most environmentally friendly ways of heating your home. Relatively new in New Zealand, pellet burners burn compressed wood pellets in a purpose-built fire. They are quite different from conventional woodburners, and are probably the least polluting form of heating for normal home use. Pellet burners have many advantages: * No more chopping or storing firewood. * Most models light electrically - no need for matches or firelighters. * Some can be set to switch on or off, using a timer. * With most models the room temperature can be thermostatically controlled. * They usually have a smaller diameter flue than woodburners, which may make installation easier. The flue can also be taken out horizontally through an external wall. * They burn very cleanly, so are less of a community health hazard. * The pellets are made from sawmill waste - burning it is carbon-neutral. * The fuel is manufactured from an abundant renewable resource. But nothing is perfect in this world: * Pellet burners are expensive to buy compared with woodburners and gas heaters. Prices start at around $3500 (including burner and flue), and then there's installation. (See Models compared for more information on prices.) * They can only burn pellets - no free firewood. * They require electricity to work, so they're no use during a power cut. A 12-volt battery and inverter or a small generator could be used as a back-up power-supply system. But they add to the cost. * The burners are more complex than a woodburner, with electrical and electronic components that can fail. * They have fans and a hopper-feed motor, so they make some noise. Some models can have the flue fan mounted outside the house to reduce noise. * Currently there's a limited range of pellet-supply retail outlets, but the situation is improving. * Some energy is lost in manufacturing and transporting the pellets. If you are thinking of buying a pellet burner, here's what to consider. Free-standing/insert/basement furnace: All three versions are available. Unlike woodburners, fireplace insert pellet-burners produce as much heat and are as efficient as freestanding models. The basement furnace models are connected to water-filled radiators in the house, or via a heat exchanger, to standard central-heating air-ducts to distribute heat throughout the home. Wetbacks: Some models have provision for a wetback. This can reduce your hot-water bill, but possibly not enough to recoup the wetback's expensive installation costs. Heat output: The maximum output of most lounge-installed pellet burners is in the 9 to 11 kWh range. But overheating of the room is less likely with a pellet burner because the heat output is controllable over quite a large range - usually 1.9 to 11 kWh. Controls: Pellet-burner controls - the on/off switch, start button, and heat-control knob - are electrical. Cleaning: Pellet fires produce less ash than a conventional woodburner. Often, the ash will only need emptying once per week. Most models have a pull-out ash tray. Flue system: Flues are typically 75mm in diameter, which is smaller than a conventional woodburner. Many flue arrangements are possible. Insert models can have their flue inside an existing chimney; and freestanders often have their flue exiting the room horizontally through an exterior wall and then running up the outside of the building. Installation costs: Every house is slightly different, but installation costs should be similar to those of a woodburner. Remember a power outlet needs to be nearby. Safety guards: The surfaces of a pellet burner can get very hot and be a danger to small children. Protective guards are available and highly recommended. Building consents: You must obtain a building consent from your local authority to install a pellet burner. Running costs: Running a pellet burner costs around 8c to 14c per kWh. This is more than a woodburner (using bought firewood), or a heat-pump - but less than half the cost of running a conventional electric heater. They're also competitive with flued reticulated gas heaters and central heating - depending on regional prices. The full report looks very interesting and includes a comparison of specific models with their prices and features. If you want to see the whole report you can go here: http://www.consumer.org.nz and either buy the particular report or join and have access to all Consumer reports. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caryl Posted July 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2009 Thanks for all that Whetu. Jude I will have to wait until Grant is home to tell you the running costs as I can't remember :oops: We had a log fire but got sick of chopping and carting in wood (especially when cockroaches, white tail spiders and other critters came in with it). We replaced with gas as we have heat pumps at the other end but thought an alternative in a power cut might be useful and we like the look of flames. Our lounge (with many windows) does not lend itself to an efficiently placed heatpump hence the need for something else. We already had the hearth to place a free standing something on Pellets are now widely available from an ever growing number of suppliers apparently. A basement furnace would be good - but we haven't got a basement Another reason for changing from gas (apart from the ever increasing cost) is our model is no longer serviced and parts are unavailable. Although we bought a well known brand (Masport) the company was sold, then resold, and spare parts are no longer available. We just had the man in to fix it as the gas lighter doohickey whatchamacallit wore out. He had to jack up a replacement using a bit from a Moffit oven with Grant providing some sort of override for the cutout bit built into it :roll: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spoon Posted July 6, 2009 Report Share Posted July 6, 2009 have you looked at diesel fires? no RUC charges!!!!! pump out a bit of heat nice flame effects and very quiet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caryl Posted July 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2009 We were told almost $5,000 for fire, installation and permit etc. Pellets vary but we found some at $400 for 1 tonne. We figured that amount would last us 2 winters. Just got our latest gas bill - $135.85. That is for 1 month. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted July 6, 2009 Report Share Posted July 6, 2009 We were told almost $5,000 for fire, installation and permit etc. Pellets vary but we found some at $400 for 1 tonne. We figured that amount would last us 2 winters. Just got our latest gas bill - $135.85. That is for 1 month. How many months do you think you'll actually be using the gas fire/pellet? Say about 5 months? so your gas cost would be $675/year at $135/month If we go on the pessimistic side and say the $400 will only last you 1 winter... That would be $80 pellets/month saving $55/month or $275/year. So you'd need 18 years to break even. If the pellets did last you 2 winters at the 5 months use per year that's $40/month saving $95/month or $475 per year and a break even time of 10.5 years Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whetu Posted July 7, 2009 Report Share Posted July 7, 2009 How many months do you think you'll actually be using the gas fire/pellet? Say about 5 months? so your gas cost would be $675/year at $135/month If we go on the pessimistic side and say the $400 will only last you 1 winter... That would be $80 pellets/month saving $55/month or $275/year. So you'd need 18 years to break even. If the pellets did last you 2 winters at the 5 months use per year that's $40/month saving $95/month or $475 per year and a break even time of 10.5 years That works if we assume that the $135/month gas bill is for heating only. If it is also used for cooking etc the break-even time will be longer as they won't be saving that much gas. There is also usually a fixed supply charge and a unit charge for gas. If the supply charge is high, the gas bill might not come down by much. Caryl, what is your gas bill for a typical summer month? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zev Posted July 7, 2009 Report Share Posted July 7, 2009 I was just discussing this with one of my colleagues, and he also said that since the pellet fires are not just normal fire box and has moving and electrical parts, such as the thermostats, the hopper and screw mechanism that deliver the pellets to the firebox etc, that at some stage these bits may need repairs/maintenance as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caryl Posted July 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2009 In straight economic terms there isn't that much difference over time BUT we also can't get the parts for the exisiting gas fire anymore. The cost in gas last year (we only use it in winter & for heating only) from June - Oct was $678.08 (and we have had price increases since then) plus $100 per year for the bottles (no service charge, we hire the bottles). Last year our gas bill for May/June was $92.57. This year it was $135.85 for the same period and we were away for part of that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VinsonMassif Posted July 7, 2009 Report Share Posted July 7, 2009 Yeah economic terms is only a small part of deciding which heating to run with. I like the idea of a pellet fire. Making your money back isn't really that big of a deal IMHO. With all the drama in the world you might make a windfall, or be taken out tomorrow by trying to avoid a poor gentleman behind a zimmer-frame going down the curb and falling into your path. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twinkles Posted July 7, 2009 Report Share Posted July 7, 2009 the pellets should go a long way a bag is supposed to last around 2 weeks each bag is 15kgs so 1tonne should last 4 years? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted July 7, 2009 Report Share Posted July 7, 2009 the pellets should go a long way a bag is supposed to last around 2 weeks each bag is 15kgs so 1tonne should last 4 years? I don't think most people manage 2 weeks per bag unless they're in a small well insulated house and don't use it much. Most people I've heard from seem to manage more like 1-2 bags a week. Which would still be a huge improvement on convenience vs hauling in a wheelbarrow load of logs each day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twinkles Posted July 8, 2009 Report Share Posted July 8, 2009 yeah i'm only repeating what i've heard about them, haven't got one myself. We just have an oil heater, darn expensive but at least it keeps us warm and is safe to leave running 24/7. Looked into getting a fire, decided a normal one is the best bet since wood is cheap/free here, but the instalation cost and permits etc are hefty. Maybe next winter On another note, we were freezing in the lounge trying to watch tv until recently, its about 60spm and running the wall fan heater barely heats it, so i got fed up and nailed some old sheets up to seperate the end of the lounge we use, about 20sqm, now it gets toasty and warm in a few minutes and i'm saving loads of power. Doesn't look too pretty but who cares, i'd rather be warm lol. Will take them down in spring. The oil heater is 2kw and heats two bedrooms from the hallway inbetween, thanks to super thick insulating curtains and batts in the ceiling. I worked out it costs $60/month to run it so not bad compared to the price of a fireplace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zev Posted July 8, 2009 Report Share Posted July 8, 2009 In straight economic terms there isn't that much difference over time BUT we also can't get the parts for the exisiting gas fire anymore. How much is a new gas fire, and since yours is an old dunger, are the new ones more efficient or not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caryl Posted July 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2009 No idea. I don't care how efficient a new one would be anyway as the gas price still rises regularly! :evil: The pellet fire seemed to give off a lot more heat too, even on low. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jude Posted July 8, 2009 Report Share Posted July 8, 2009 There's no getting around rising costs Once lots of people have pellet fires I bet their prices rise too. If different firms are making pellets now, is there any difference in the quality? Some might burn away much faster than others if that was so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stargazer Posted July 8, 2009 Report Share Posted July 8, 2009 Here it the States pellet fires are somewhat popular, however the price of pellets keep going up due to popularity. so that might be something to look at down there too. the people that i talked to most like the pellet fire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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