elusive_fish Posted March 5, 2009 Report Share Posted March 5, 2009 Hi, You may have seen my recent post saying that Im bored with my two tanks and want a change. Well, I'm currently selling those two tanks and have bought a 4ft tank (1220 x 450 x 460) to turn into a Malawi tank. I'm trying my best to keep this venture 'cost neutral' - ie spending only what I get out of my two current tanks. My wife will NOT be happy with my hobby anymore if it costs any more (the kids are priority one... and some day id like to buy some new clothes too!) So the big questions I have are: Substrate - what to use. I've been reading a bit on here, but still a little confused. I like the look of the white sand, but I see people saying that it gets too dirty and gets swept around by the fish swimming? So is Aragaonite or coral sand the best options? Is there a cheap way to get hold of something suitable? Filters - the tank I have is on a simple metal stand, which makes it not very suitable for a cannister. Could I put two internal filters in at opposite ends to form a sort of whirl pool current? If someone can please recomment something suitable but inexpensive I would be very appreciative Aquascape - Is schist suitable? Do I need to silicone the rocks together? What has worked well for others? Will any plants grown in the water conditions I am aiming for? I'm excited to get my tank going... but still a little daunted at making the right decisions and coming in 'on budget'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanjury Posted March 5, 2009 Report Share Posted March 5, 2009 lol a man after my own heart I am not allowed to let my fishy hobby/obsession affect my family either... I have the advantage of having a few tanks and fish to breed to put $$'s back into the power and new stuff.. Substrate - crushed coral/aragonite is good, but expensive to do a whole tank with it does pop up on trademe though so keep an eye on there for some cheap stuff locally. Alternatively you could score some cheap/free gravel at your local garden centre or even river/beach can even get pool filter sand all sorts of stuff cheap. But you will need to add something else to buffer a couple of big limestone rocks would be ideal. Talk to Nav and see what he has sourced locally that might fit the bill cheaply. What about your tank being on a metal stand makes it unsuitable for a canaster filter? Canasters are the best really, but you can get away with internals probably expect to pay around $80-90 for 2 large internals personally I would go for an external but it is upto you. Schist is good for making hiding places etc, if you can balance it well no need to silicon it make sure you lay the rocks directly on the bottom of the tank not on the substrate as the fish will dig under them and send the lot tumbling. I don't silicon any of mine and if you did it would be very hard to remove them again if you needed to catch a fish. Plants might go I have some random stuff in one of my tanks it gets munched away at but seems to be growing faster than it is being eaten, anubis (sp) nana is supposed to be good too, but is expensive and slow growing. You can get some pretty realistic looking silk plants. What fish are you planning on doing in this tank? It is a pretty good sized tank to start off with africans so should be able to do a very nice display Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elusive_fish Posted March 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2009 lol a man after my own heart I am not allowed to let my fishy hobby/obsession affect my family either... I have the advantage of having a few tanks and fish to breed to put $$'s back into the power and new stuff.. Substrate - crushed coral/aragonite is good, but expensive to do a whole tank with it does pop up on trademe though so keep an eye on there for some cheap stuff locally. Alternatively you could score some cheap/free gravel at your local garden centre or even river/beach can even get pool filter sand all sorts of stuff cheap. But you will need to add something else to buffer a couple of big limestone rocks would be ideal. Talk to Nav and see what he has sourced locally that might fit the bill cheaply. One income, two kids makes for a tight situation! My wife is awesome about my fish enthusiasm, but the day the eftpos card declines buying nappies is the day I find my tank on trademe. Maybe I could get a second job and bid on my own tank... I did a quick trip to redwood aquatics today and it looks like it would cost me about $65 to do the tank in aragonite. Is this good? What about your tank being on a metal stand makes it unsuitable for a canaster filter? Canasters are the best really, but you can get away with internals probably expect to pay around $80-90 for 2 large internals personally I would go for an external but it is upto you. Well, wouldnt it make it open to view and tampering? I have a 3 year old and a 15 month old = noting on the floor or within reach! What fish are you planning on doing in this tank? It is a pretty good sized tank to start off with africans so should be able to do a very nice display Still a little unsure of this. I'm going to visit navarre this weekend to take a look. I do like those melanochromis johanniis. I'd also love some of those dems you have... maybe I should reserve some and split the shipping costs with anyone else from chch that wants some Any recommendations of what to keep? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanjury Posted March 5, 2009 Report Share Posted March 5, 2009 lol yeah were 1 income 1 kid and another due yesterday so arriving any day now (hopfully lol) so know the feeling.. It can be done cheaply though just have to do a little more work hunting around for the bargains and buy all your fish from friends/breeders. Id say $65 is reasonable for a petshop price but I have been given 50kg of crushed coral for free once and recently paid $20 for 30kg on trademe so I would keep hunting around or go down the normal gravel route with something else buffering... lol yeah the kids love the filters and stuff my daughter is hard work in the fishroom but loves coming out to play with all the stuff she can find, had to rebuild it all to make it safe though.. Have you considered enclosing the metal stand even cladding it in wood would be good? Yeah dems/johannii are good fish to have in there, i only have the one batch of dems at the moment, can probably arrange to get some johannii down to you as well when I send another batch down to Nav, go and see what he has to offer and suggests and we will see what we can work out later Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elusive_fish Posted March 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2009 So do you know if you are going to have another boy or girl? Ive got two girls and its AWESOME. If cannister filters are the way to go maybe I could find a way to block it off. I know nothing about them. Any chance someone can point me at a good deal on trademe or an online retailer? Is second hand a dodgy prospect? What about something like this? http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=205851640 Part of the problem for me is timing. I have three lionheads I'd like to keep so id preferably be able to set up my new tank at the same time as passing on my two. That way I can transfer a good chunk of walter or even run one of my filters in the new tank for a few days (that must help the bacteria?) I just want to do it once and do it right... unfortunately that is normally the opposite to doing it cheap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanjury Posted March 5, 2009 Report Share Posted March 5, 2009 Having a boy this time so should be awesome.. Externals are just soo much better than internals.. Those eheims are good second hand isn't bad as long as it still goes and everything is fine, may have worn impeller etc if it has had alot of use. Something like this would be good.. http://www.trademe.co.nz/Home-living/Pe ... 332529.htm No reason you can't run your other filters from your other tanks while your fish are smaller and upgrade as you save and can afford it as long as you are doing regular water changes and keeping an eye on things. You will need to do this when you transfer the lionheads anyway. You can do things right and cheap just have to know what corners to cut and where to get cheap stuff from Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elusive_fish Posted March 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2009 Anyone know anything of this brand or filter? Would it be suitable? http://www.trademe.co.nz/Home-living/Pets-animals/Fish/Pumps-filters/auction-205352627.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Navarre Posted March 5, 2009 Report Share Posted March 5, 2009 Hi there, Technically you can use any substrate you like. As long as it doesnt have many if any (thanks scribe) sharp ish edges then you can do what you like to get the look you like. What you then need to do is use a 'buffer". This is where you build your rockwork with limestone (easiest for us here is Oamaru stone from tip/ building site/ garden center) or dolomite (better I think as slightly different minerals and find at same as above. Or you can use what other rock work you like if you want to put something in your filter to help the "buffering". People most often do this by using a stocking or something simular and placing the buffer agent in it inside the filter (this is easier and has better effect in an external filter but people do do it in an internal) You can also build a "false" wall (see Spoons threadand talk to Rockwork) and this is lighter not always cheaper but a very good way of making up back grounds as you can hide things like heaters and filter bits in the wall. I always try and put down a base or build my background on something that can not be dug up (that includes the bottom of the tank) I dont "glue" my rocks together as that can make things very difficult to remove at times so I stack and re stack very carefully to prevent falls and provide different areas in the tank. You were also talking about breeding so having a background that you can take apart to get babies out is a big help. Once again Redwoods have a mix of substrate called Marine Mix and whilst you might need to crush some of this stuff up to make it finer it is a good blend of corals, argonite and dolomites that works very well as a buffering agent. I think It is about $10 a bag and for a 4 ft tank you would need maybe 4-5 bags max. And you can add more later. Ryan is right about filters in regards to maturing them. Keep your filters running in your established tanks as long as you can and then run them in your new tank once it is set up to help transfer all the goodies to the substrate and new filter. once that has happened and you have transfered your BNs and Lionheds you can look at adding new fish. Sorry about the novel but I hth Navarre Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elusive_fish Posted March 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 Thanks for all the detailed information. I like the look of aragonite or coral sand, so I may go the route of using the substrate for buffering. I didn't see any 'marine mix' at redwood aquatics- they had coral sand and aragonite in two different sizes and dolomite in bigger chunks. Do they add to the hardness in different ways? Should I get a bit of each? Should I be going for the bigger (2-3mm?) size as opposed to the fine sand? Thanks again for the help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Navarre Posted March 6, 2009 Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 I have found the bigger stuff easier to maintain and work with but in saying that I have seen some pretty great tanks with the sand. So is about how much work you want to do in your tank and what overall look you want. I dont use sand for example cause I like to put teh spray bar under my rocks. That means current at bottom of tank...that equals moving sand. If you have spray bar at top of tank then less current at bottom equals less sand moving except when fish do it. By the way tank sounds a great size Navarre Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elusive_fish Posted March 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 I like the look of the sand. But do they fish send it everywhere just be swimming around fast? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix44 Posted March 6, 2009 Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 here's some nice african tanks for inspiration: http://www.aquahobby.com/tanks/e_tank0809.php http://www.aquahobby.com/tanks/e_tank0902.php enjoy! :bounce: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elusive_fish Posted March 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 That second one is incredible. How on earth do you carve polystyrene like that? How do you coat/colour it to look like rock? Wow is that ever effective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix44 Posted March 6, 2009 Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 dunno how he carved it. i personally would have used a mini blow torch. can get similar results once you get the feel of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jatt16 Posted March 6, 2009 Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 how did that person colour or is it just algae Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquatopia Posted March 6, 2009 Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 ..... I didn't see any 'marine mix' at redwood aquatics- .... Its usually underneath the cichlid tank - walk through to the goldfish and turn left underneath the arch and its under those tanks in the middle (last time i was there at least) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob1066 Posted March 6, 2009 Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 Hi I use the coarse sand from the sea shorein my Malawi tanks and the fish love it Also if it has shells in it it helps to buffer the ph Also its free Cheers rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elusive_fish Posted March 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 Its usually underneath the cichlid tank - walk through to the goldfish and turn left underneath the arch and its under those tanks in the middle (last time i was there at least) I did look there, but nothing like that. I will have to ask Bob next time im there. I really liked the aragonite they have at organisms. Looks to be around 1mm size, so kinda in between the two types they had at redwood. Unfortunately, its $70 for 25kg. Ouch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquatopia Posted March 6, 2009 Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 Dont forget if you get the aragonite from Organism (or anywhere else) it takes a fair amount of washing/rinsing - so give yourself plenty of time when it comes to doing that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kd123 Posted March 7, 2009 Report Share Posted March 7, 2009 I got a reasonable sized bag of fine black sand fron a Landscape place on Dyers RD for $16. It is a type of lime stone and dosent come up completely black but more of a dark battleship grey. They had different grades from fine to course. I ended up going for the medium grade and mixing some coral sand with it. The fish certainly love it and spend most of their time moving it around the tank. The problem was the time it took to wash. I did a couple of handfuls at a time and after 50 washes the water was still cloudy Oh well it was worth the effort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elusive_fish Posted March 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2009 Well I don't think anyone could accuse me of mucking around. I set my new tank up yeserday and got my first fish. A big thanks to all that contributed advice and a special big thanks to navarre, who spent a lot of time sharing his expertise and his excellent fish with me. I have ordered an aqua one Cf1200 and should have it Tuesday. In the meantime im using my pathetic little internal filter to spread those good bacteria. In my tank I currently have: 1 x BN 5 x Lionhead 5 x Melanochromis Johanii With 11 small, and still shy, fish it sure looks empty! The aquascaping is just a placeholder. I'll probably have a small rock pile either end of the big bit of bogwood. Either that or I'll push the bogwood down one end and encorporate it into the stone pile. Ideas are welcome My neighbour makes kitchens, so I may see if he can make it into a false cabinet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neon Posted March 7, 2009 Report Share Posted March 7, 2009 Wow you don't muck around! Looks good so far. It looks like you have a handy alcove to fit it in Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elusive_fish Posted March 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 I've changed a few things around. I'm no good at landscaping even on dry land, so any feedback would be appreciated. Please excuse the undersized fluval internal filter, its just a placeholder from my old tank until the new external arrives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix44 Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 nice. just one question though. are you going to fill the tank up to the max? cause ive seen many tanks where the water level was an inch below the supports and i never understood why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elusive_fish Posted March 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 nice. just one question though. are you going to fill the tank up to the max? cause ive seen many tanks where the water level was an inch below the supports and i never understood why. A good observation I have a 54L I am hoping to sell in the next couple of days. When it goes, the water from it will go into this tank (heard its good to help cycle the new tank) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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