sandysme Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 I have a bathtub in my garden and for over a year now it has been home to my goldfish rangeing in size from 5cms to25cms, every time I clean it out I pull the plug and refill using the hose and have done ever since it was set up, I did this today at about 12pm, then at about 7pm when I went back to have a look with my evening coffee, they were dead and the survivors were gasping, took the survivors out and put them in the kids pool that was filled up on thursday and kept pushing them around until they started to swim again. I am shattered as some of them were my originals that were from my mum and I have had for years and some were so big...dont know whay could of possibly happened as I do the same thing every change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix44 Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 it was real hot today... maybe the temp got to them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandysme Posted January 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 nah it has been warmer, and I had filled it with cold water, some days it stays warm all day till it cools... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kazz Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 Did you remember to acclimatise them to the new water temperature, as the water they can out of would have been warm and the hose water would be colder, this can cause them to go into shock, the same as a sudden ph change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ally07 Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 Erm, hate to be a nit picker, but you really shouldn't fill the tub straight from the hose.. I'm not saying that's what killed the fish, since they survived so long, but I'm not sure if it did play a part. Just throwing ideas out here.. Maybe the sudden change of water caused a temperature difference and the chlorine from the hose water wiped out the ammonia nitrifying bacteria in the water, causing stress and massive ammonia spike due to the number of (messy eating) fish. Or, if it wasn't the ammonia, maybe the water change stressed the fish and gave an opportunity for infection to spread. I'm slightly more inclined toward the first possibility, because I once let someone else help me to do a water change (90%!!!) and the beneficial bacterial death caused an ammonia spike and killed half the fish within the same night. Also, if there is an infection, you should be able to see signs of it on the remaining fish. I would suggest dechlorinating your water before doing water changes (if you're not already doing so) and not adding any more fish for the next month or so (at least) to allow the beneficial bacteria to control the ammonia levels in the bathtub. Just my 2c! I enjoy anomalies lol~ :bounce: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 The ammonia isn't going to build up enough to be a problem in 7 hours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 Oh NO sorry to hear Sandra. And they were lovely fish too Yes i doubt that it was an ammonia problem either - ammonia takes alot longer to build up I would be more leaning towards chlorine poisoning maybe, did you use strees coat - as i do know sometimes when I'm filling buckets the smell of chlorine is really bad. Has anyone (neighbours) been spraying anything near the pond? Any wounds on the fish? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanjury Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 Sorry to hear about this Gasping at the surface would certainly suggest something nasty in the water that they can't handle or too hot, but as you had just added cold water probably something nasty.. How much of a water change did you do? Id say that the council did something random to the water, ie added extra or something or flushed some lines out or did something at the plant and you just did a water change on the wrong day Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandysme Posted January 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 I cant understand it, its something that I have always done, have filled the pond with the water that has sat in the pool now, am on the phone with the council trying to get through to the water treatment plant to see if they topped up this week... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandysme Posted January 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 well lovely guy, assures me that the level of chlorine hasnt changed at all, I guess in future I need to only do half changes and use water ager...costly lesson learned... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel Posted January 6, 2009 Report Share Posted January 6, 2009 I normally just leaved the hose running slowy for 5 minutes (don't forget it though) every second day in mine - by doing that it overflows all the muck out. As long as you don't change more than say 25% each time you won't need to use ager Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandysme Posted January 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2009 thanks mel, so gutted... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel Posted January 6, 2009 Report Share Posted January 6, 2009 I bet you are I feel for ya. i have a heap of baby comets growing out, but maybe abit too small to go with the big guys yet - i do have them in with my big fantails as they too quick for them to catch, you are welcome to afew if you like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandysme Posted January 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2009 sounds great let me know...will wait till after the 21st when we get back from holiday, thanks heaps... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caryl Posted January 6, 2009 Report Share Posted January 6, 2009 I am surprised you kept 22 goldfish in a bath to start with. I assume the majority are on the smaller size? Other wise they must be greatly overstocked. Your standard regime is terrible! :lol: But it has obviously worked for a long time :roll: . I used to have goldfish in a bowl (gasp!) and once a week I would fill a bucket with cold water (bore water so very cold) empty the fish into it then scrub out the bowl and gravel with soapy water, rinse, then fill up with more bore water and drop the fish back in. They survived that too! I guess the fish didn't know this wasn't the right thing to do - I know I certainly didn't! :lol: Mel's suggestion of the overflow regularly is a good one and you are less likely to have the same trouble again. Although the council say the chlorine level hasn't changed, I wonder if someone flushed the water supply to your area with something else. To have so many die so fast indicates something toxic in the water to me. Out of curiosity, was it mainly the larger fish that died or the smaller ones? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandysme Posted January 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2009 was the small to medium ones that died, although one real big quite old one died too... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel Posted January 6, 2009 Report Share Posted January 6, 2009 I used to have goldfish in a bowl (gasp!) and once a week I would fill a bucket with cold water (bore water so very cold) empty the fish into it then scrub out the bowl and gravel with soapy water, rinse, then fill up with more bore water and drop the fish back in. They survived that too! I guess the fish didn't know this wasn't the right thing to do - I know I certainly didn't! :lol: Gosh I used to do that too, We had a round bowl I used to use dish wash liquid to clean it out in thats proberly why we lost quite afew fish - if only I knew then what I know now, the poor wee fishies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadeusus Posted January 6, 2009 Report Share Posted January 6, 2009 Did the dead ones have a wide open mouth? perhaps hypoxia (oxygen deficiency) was involved? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthewY Posted January 11, 2009 Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 Found one of my ones dead today with had a wide open mouth :-( It was chased by the neighbours kid with a net last weekend and wondered if that might have stressed it but I did notice the mounh was like stuck on open when finding the body, does it mean I should get an Air pump for the pond? theres currently a water pump in there for surface movement but maybe not enough with the hot weather? Pond is about 150L Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caryl Posted January 11, 2009 Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 Could be the hot weather. Also check it hasn't got a stone stuck in its throat. Goldfish are good at that :roll: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella Posted January 11, 2009 Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 Did the dead ones have a wide open mouth? perhaps hypoxia (oxygen deficiency) was involved? I have been wondering about this open mouth thing. Particularly with the mouth wide open and head thrown back. I have seen a few dead fish like that and kept puzzling. Until the latest one. Definitely died with its mouth closed. A little while later, as rigor mortis stuck in, it opened and the head pulled back. I think it is a shrinking of muscles/tendons thing, rather than hypoxia. Mel and Caryl, I used to do similar things, scrubbing out the tank. I had no idea. I feel so guilty about it now :oops: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadeusus Posted January 11, 2009 Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 Gaping post mortem is a recognised differential for hypoxia. Like anything else these signs are clues to investigate not definitive things. But the vast majority of dead fish I've seen, and I've seen thousands, do not develop gaping purely because of post mortem muscular contraction. It would be unusual for rigor to result in gaping as the temporal and masseter muscles that shut the jaw are more powerful than those that assist in opening the jaw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella Posted January 11, 2009 Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 Interesting, thank you Based on the way some fish died, they were definitely not in hypoxic water, but I wonder if the manner of death (body shutting down and very slow breathing) lead to hypoxia within the body but not as an actual primary cause of death? Good to find someone who knows a bit about this subject, as I couldn't find much myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadeusus Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 Stella, you hit the proverbial nail on the proverbial head. Hypoxia can be absolute or relative - absolute = lack of oxygen in the water, but relative = inability to take up the oxygen in the water. This could be caused by either gill pathology (decreased blood flow due to loss of lamellae or decreased gas exchange due to increased thickness of repiratory epithelium) or cardiovascular compromise leading to decreased gill perfusion and thus less blood passing through gill to exchange gases. Some chronic (or even acute I suppose) pathologies can result in cardiovascular compromise and thus hypoxia. As a professor I once knew said - "one only dies for 3 reasons...the heart stops working, the brain stops working or the lungs stop working" in the case of fish substitute gills for lungs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 Wonderful! Thanks so much for that. Really clears up something I have puzzled over for a while. (so you are some sort of vet pathologist??) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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