cees Posted June 25, 2002 Report Share Posted June 25, 2002 Lets do a semi scientific (big word) experiment and get some real data about fish species availability in New Zealand. This is in response to the discussion about "wholesale/import/local breeding/ can I get an exotic species" http://www.fnzas.org.nz/fishroom/viewtopic.php?t=342 and http://www.fnzas.org.nz/fishroom/viewtopic.php?t=343 I've taken the 'allowable species' list from MAF and converted it into a survey (20 minute job, very crude). The idea is to get some data on whether a species is available in New Zealand or not. I realise it is very limited because species definitions are very broad for some of them. The survey is also open for abuse and there is no way to check whether submitted data is correct. (How's that for 'scientific') Anyway, try it here http://www.fnzas.org.nz/fish.php and if you are game try this one http://www.fnzas.org.nz/fishlist.php (experimental) here you can add species into the appropriate group of the list I know that navigation on these pages is still problematic. If this turns out popular than I'll improve on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Posted June 26, 2002 Report Share Posted June 26, 2002 Hi Cees, can we have an edit feature for those of us who click before we check? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caryl Posted June 26, 2002 Report Share Posted June 26, 2002 Oh Rob, you were told to check first because you couldn't change it!! Men! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cees Posted June 26, 2002 Author Report Share Posted June 26, 2002 Hi Cees, can we have an edit feature for those of us who click before we check? no which one was the mistake ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cees Posted June 26, 2002 Author Report Share Posted June 26, 2002 no let me qualify that eventually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cees Posted June 26, 2002 Author Report Share Posted June 26, 2002 I used this, http://www.fnzas.org.nz/fishlist.php and discovered I only keep 3 species. pathetic Cees Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Posted June 26, 2002 Report Share Posted June 26, 2002 Cees, can you remove both of the Corydoras melanistius melanistius entries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Posted June 26, 2002 Report Share Posted June 26, 2002 Oh Rob, you were told to check first because you couldn't change it!! Men! I object your honour , I was told ...there is no way to check whether submitted data is correct There was no comment on being unable to correct masculine incompetance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cees Posted June 26, 2002 Author Report Share Posted June 26, 2002 Rob, Caryl you are both right. (or wrong, depends on your perspective) I'm language impaired (especially at 1 am): on http://www.fnzas.org.nz/fish.php I wrote : "The survey is crude, and the button 'Now in NZ' is one way" I meant to say, the button is a 'one way' submission, as in you can only "submit" but not "unsubmit". whatever Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Posted June 26, 2002 Report Share Posted June 26, 2002 Cees, how much hassel to alphabetise by species within a given genus? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cees Posted June 26, 2002 Author Report Share Posted June 26, 2002 Cees, how much hassel to alphabetise by species within a given genus? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cees Posted June 28, 2002 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2002 A list of all species reported sofar can be found here http://www.fnzas.org.nz/index.php?id=387&list=1 People, I can't believe we have only 4 people in New Zealand keeping fish!! help me out here, I'm collecting data for a proper fish survey. Those of you who did contribute early on when it was still anonymous, please visit the list again and add your species. Cees Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Posted July 6, 2002 Report Share Posted July 6, 2002 Good idea Cees. Are we going to be able to see who is reporting what, or is there a privacy issue involved. Maybe a tickbox could be added to the entry page if the person adding the species wishes to let other know they have it or not. That could solve any privacy issues. No rush, just when you have time... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pegasus Posted July 7, 2002 Report Share Posted July 7, 2002 Hi, This doesn't seem an appropriate area for this topic, as I understood it was for buying and selling goods that members had that they were needing to sell, or as in my case wanting to buy fish and plants. However, I am very interested in the goings on, and the results, so I would like to ask the following. Cees wrote, People, I can't believe we have only 4 people in New Zealand keeping fish!! help me out here, I'm collecting data for a proper fish survey. I'm a little confused here, so please bear with me. Question: What exactly are we trying to establish here? Are we trying to establish ALL fish that are in circulation in NZ, or is this a means of possibly finding someone who has an oddball species of fish that few of us know about, which if this were the case, that person in question would hardly make it public if the fish were brought in by some devious means. The lists given elsewhere cover the range of ALLOWABLE fish in NZ, along with allowable imports, but the original conception of all this was to find out if the wholesalers would import other species not on the list if the need was great enough. I can understand the fact that many members may need "new blood" so to speak, to strengthen a particular breeding line, and this "new blood" may be held by a species already in the country, and possibly the survey could "unearth" a special fish of some sort, but displaying the fact that "Fred, or Jane" has a Swordtal along with twenty other species is not going to answer anything, unless one of those species happened to be on the endangered list, or an illegal import. The list of breeders on the FNZAS site is extensive, but again I would like to ask a question. How do we contact these people if we are not members of the FNZAS or a member of their particular club or group? The answer seems to be "You can't" unless you are in their particular circle of friends. To quote you once more Cees, People, I can't believe we have only 4 people in New Zealand keeping fish!! help me out here, I'm collecting data for a proper fish survey. Can I rephrase that by asking, "Is there anyone BREEDING fish out there, that are willing to SELL a few, and willing to make the details public, or contact the person requesting details."? Aquarists in NZ seem to be very secretive about their hobby, especially when it comes to sharing breeding secrets, or revealing what favorite species they may have tucked away in a hidden tank somewhere. Perhaps your survey may change all this. We hope so, and perhaps one day it seems I will have to make the six hour trip to Aucland and back . Until then I remain fishless. Bill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cees Posted July 7, 2002 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2002 This topic is drifting all over the place, great The fishlsurvey http://www.fnzas.org.nz/tropical-fish.0.html was my response to http://www.fnzas.org.nz/fishroom/viewtopic.php?t=342 where wholesaler said 'reply to the questions of why the variety of fish imported is limited' who I believe said that in response to questions about the limited number of species available in New Zealand (other posts) My thoughts at that time were like this. Lets get some facts. What species are in New Zealand? is it really that limited or are we discussing a myth. 4 people in NZ keeping fish, well only 4 people have responded to my call for speices registration. As a side effect I'm seeing all kinds of possibilities with the little script I wrote. If interest is there I'm willing to expand it to include plants and include who's keeping what, who's breeding, who's selling etc etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pegasus Posted July 7, 2002 Report Share Posted July 7, 2002 Your first link seems to be inactive Cees, but perhaps you are updating, as I viewed it this morning with no problems. You wrote, My thoughts at that time were like this. Lets get some facts. What species are in New Zealand? is it really that limited or are we discussing a myth. Perhaps you should have added the word "Scarce" or "Unusual" to your question, as in, My thoughts at that time were like this. Lets get some facts. What Scarce or Unusual species are in New Zealand? is it really that limited or are we discussing a myth. Perhaps will all the surveys and such you should create an area especially for this :) As I mentioned above, knowing that "Fred or Jane" has a Swordtail or any other species is not going to assist you in gaining knowledge that we already have regarding "What species are available in NZ". What you REALLY want to know is "Is there any species of fish out there that I/WE don't know about". Regards Bill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caryl Posted July 7, 2002 Report Share Posted July 7, 2002 I seem to remember talk about MAF reviewing their allowable fishes list. As I understand it, if we can prove a particular fish not on their list has been kept or bred in NZ for more than 2 years (I think it was) they would consider adding it to their allowable list. Can't remember where I heard this discussion though! As for the FNZAS breeders Pegasus, one of the reasons we join the FNZAS is to improve our network of fishkeepers and to help the hobby in general. We pay for this in capitation fees (even if it is only a pathetic amount). They are not "a circle of our friends". I have never had any problems getting anyone to tell me how they bred a particular fish, although I have had problems getting them to write it down as an article! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pegasus Posted July 7, 2002 Report Share Posted July 7, 2002 Hi Caryl, Once again I have to be careful of my words. Caryl says, We pay for this in capitation fees (even if it is only a pathetic amount). They are not "a circle of our friends". In my particular case the "Pathetic Amount" does not come into the equation, and I am considering joining the FNZAS, but the only benefits that I will gain (as far as I am aware) is the Aquarium World, along with various newsletters that may be available, and perhaps I may get to know other people with similar interests, but as far as meeting/trips/shows/ and all the other benefits of this type, it just won't be possible for me to be involved, which is my loss, and of no fault of the FNZAS. BTW. In my club days (30 odd years) in various clubs and societies in the UK, of which there were countless thousands of members, I classed each and every one, (known or unknown) as a friend, much as I class all members here, of which I have not met a single one. The circle of friends is there Caryl, whether you admit it or not, and it happens in all clubs, no matter what your interests are. As an example, if you breed/keep a particular fish you tend to spend time with those members that do the same, so therefore, (in my words) you form a circle of friends, that you converse with on a regular basis. No disrespect meant by my previous post. My question now is, If one joins the FNZAS, will all these FNZAS members make available to other FNZAS members details of their contact address (Email) so that if a member is seeking a particular fish/plant/item/breeding knowledge, that member will be able to contact other members with relation to the above, or will one only have access to a list similar to that in the list of NZ Breeders as here on this site? Bill. This is way off topic :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caryl Posted July 7, 2002 Report Share Posted July 7, 2002 For those who live a great distance from civilisation it can be difficult. To join the FNZAS you must join an affiliated club or society. I realise attending club meetings is not possible for you either. Our club has a number of members who join for the club newsletter, Aquarium World, and the ability to contact likeminded people when they have a problem, or question. They either live in an area that does not have a club, or live too far away to be able to attend meetings. We have members in Ashburton, Motueka, Wellington and Texas USA. We used to have a Westport member too. If you wish to join the Marlborough Aquarium Club Pegasus you would be most welcome to do so. Our subs are $15 single or $20 family and the newsletter is emailed in pdf format (read using Adobe Acrobat Reader). The sub covers the FNZAS capitation fee. The FNZAS produces an annual Year Book which is sent free to all members. This lists all members' names, addresses, phone and/or fax (with only one I can think of who refused to give permission to us to print his contact details). Those who wish their email address to be known will have it listed in the Year Book also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pegasus Posted July 7, 2002 Report Share Posted July 7, 2002 Thanks for the info Caryl. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajbroome Posted July 7, 2002 Report Share Posted July 7, 2002 Pegasus said... > ... the only benefits that I will gain (as far as I am aware) is the > Aquarium World, along with various newsletters that may be > available... And of course, FNZAS.ORG.NZ which while free to everyone is a FNZAS project. So you'd not actually be gaining, but the Federation would... The NZKA would be happy to take your money, as I've said before BTW: Thanks Cees for all your efforts with the site. I know it's appreciated by members and non-members alike. Andrew. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pegasus Posted July 8, 2002 Report Share Posted July 8, 2002 Hi AJ, You say, The NZKA would be happy to take your money, as I've said before Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted November 14, 2002 Report Share Posted November 14, 2002 i just went thru the list... and there are quite a lot of fish there... I have one question though... have any of u heard of the flowerhorn? it is supposedly a pretty new species/breed... I have a friend breeding it in Malaysia at the moment... he was just telling me about it... Is it allowed to be imported into NZ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Posted November 14, 2002 Report Share Posted November 14, 2002 From a quick seach on 'flowerhorn' I found this: "Believed to be a hybrid between Amphilophus citrinellus and Amphilophus trimaculatum first developed in Malaysia around 1996." So a cross between a midas cichlid and a 3-spot cichlid. If MAF strictly follow their rules (based on the "what's allowed" list), no they're not allowed. But it appears MAF aren't too strict in enforcing this, if you look at what Fee has posted as currently on wholesalers lists then the following cichlids shouldn't be there (as supposedly they are not allowed) Red Parrots Electric Yellow (Labidochromis caeruleus) Venustrus Hap (Haplochromis venustus, now Nimbochromis venustus) Cichlasoma synspilum Ps. socolofi (Pseudotropheous socolofi) Shows what a joke the restrictions are (which benefits us). Hopefully MAF are working from the what definitely isn't allowed list (which they used to have on a website, but they've now removed to avoid confusion, the official line being that if it's not on the allowed list, then we can't have it). Here is the link to Fee's list of what's currently available from wholesalers - she regularly updates it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted June 18, 2003 Report Share Posted June 18, 2003 If MAF found out that importers are bringing in not allowed fish then the importer is going to be in big trouble. Some importers will place the none allowed fish under a different name. The problem is that the MAF officer checking the fish is not that good at identifying fish. IN terms of MAF reviewing the fish list I think they may in 20 years I don’t think it is on top of there priority list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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