Stella Posted September 29, 2008 Report Share Posted September 29, 2008 Don't other eggs show the eyes as the fish get bigger? It is neat when fish hunting in spring and summer lifting rocks and finding the odd one with hundreds of eyes staring back. Must give them a hell of a fright! Caper, this is how they do it: Usually the male establishes a nest under a rock. Sometimes, as Snorkel's have done, they do it on top*. The male becomes very defensive over his spot and will chase everyone else away. Eventually he cons some poor girl into parting with her eggs. Unlike goldfish et al, where they just 'squirt 'n' mix', the female very carefully lays her eggs forming a tightly packed single layer. The male alternates between guarding and individually fertilising each egg. This can take all night. The female then leaves and has nothing more to do with the process. The male keeps guard over the eggs, biting off any dead ones so live ones aren't affected by fungus, fanning them with his fins to prevent silt buildup and to oxygenate them. He will also still be trying to get other females to lay her eggs in his nest. When the eggs hatch, usually at around three weeks, the male has nothing more to do with them. Depending on species, some fry go out to sea for a few months, other species remain inland and can be seen in the still edges of stream and lakes. Sometimes the males aren't that dedicated. My upland male slowly ate all his eggs over a few days... Also I am not sure how much/if any cannibalism goes on of the fry. They turn black when they are being dominant or competitive (they are making a visual point). Even when feeding, or interacting with other fish, male bullies might quickly darken up. The 'typical' breeding look is to go very black, like a black moor goldfish, but with a brightly coloured stripe on the first dorsal. It is possible this stripe acts as a species identifier for the females. But as Snorkel's photos show, they can be anywhere between pale and black. Depends on how much of a point they are making. This is not well known, but *female* bullies possibly lose all their colouring and go bright yellow. If you want to see bullies spawning, and the only reference I know to this happening, find the school-aimed DVD "Guardians of the Mauri". Funny little story about looking after streams, but halfway through is the most amazing footage of Cran's bullies spawning. *I am guessing your fish feel REALLY safe to be nesting so exposed. They have done studies of predator responses affecting nest selection. When they can smell eels they choose nests that are more enclosed. Given the option they like bigger nests so they can have more eggs, but it depends on the strength of the male to defend it. This probably means that females will choose males with bigger nests as they are more able to defend the eggs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snorkel Posted September 30, 2008 Author Report Share Posted September 30, 2008 Wow, that was cool. Thanx Stella. Here they are today.... can't be long till they hatch now... can it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella Posted September 30, 2008 Report Share Posted September 30, 2008 aw they are so cute! They are pretty close!! PeteS hatched my last lot of bully eggs, and I think the eyes only showed up in the last week before hatching. We found the freshly hatched brine shrimp seemed a bit big for them. I would be seriously considering feeding them pondwater next time.... They are *SO* tiny when they hatch. Oh, and they seemed to take a couple of days for them all to hatch, though fungus from eggshells killed a few. That is an *amazing* photo. What do you think about possibly having it in my book? At the moment I haven't got anything near that good of eggs with eyes... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snorkel Posted September 30, 2008 Author Report Share Posted September 30, 2008 Yeah, no worries, I will try and get a better one for Ya! A few days ago, I set up a big container in the garden, poured some green water in a bucket into it(to get it started) and when they look like hatchin out I'll take the brick outta the aquarium and put it in the garden container. Then I can release 'em back where they came from. Don't know what else to do?..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snorkel Posted September 30, 2008 Author Report Share Posted September 30, 2008 Well, that wasn't very easy. I shud know to keep my mouth shut by now! Anyway, this is as close as I can get while they are in the tank. When I get the brick out and put it outside I will have a proper go and see if I can get something a bit better. Check out the thin black lines... backbone! And under magnification like that, they wriggle! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella Posted September 30, 2008 Report Share Posted September 30, 2008 ................................... You might find they are a bit harder out of water. You get a whole lot of extra stuff from the film of water around them. Worth a go though. Apparently the eggs have a tiny sticky 'thread' at one end, this is what sticks them to the rock. But the rest of the egg is not sticky, which is why the eggs are not stuck together sideways. PETE.S, GET HOME, BUILD YOUR BULLY TANK AND GET THEM SPAWNING!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snorkel Posted September 30, 2008 Author Report Share Posted September 30, 2008 They're hatching out now! Quite a few hatched into the aquarium, but by far the majority hatched into a bucket. There is about a 1/4 left to hatch. This pic is about as close as I can get. If Ya want any Stella, message Me Ya address and I'll send Ya a c/d with the pics I took. The fry are small, but active. Too small for brine shrimp. Green water is what they need. Lucky I got some. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucid Posted September 30, 2008 Report Share Posted September 30, 2008 Give them Microworms and crushed\powder flake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caper Posted September 30, 2008 Report Share Posted September 30, 2008 The male alternates between guarding and individually fertilising each egg Wow Stella, that's alot of work for some poor fella :lol: :lol: Thanks for all the info, very interesting Caper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella Posted September 30, 2008 Report Share Posted September 30, 2008 Wow Stella, that's alot of work for some poor fella :lol: :lol: haha, for a change! woohoo they have hatched! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heir Posted October 1, 2008 Report Share Posted October 1, 2008 AWESOME that is all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkLB Posted October 1, 2008 Report Share Posted October 1, 2008 :bounce: :bounce: Excellent work Snorkel. Nice pic too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jolliolli Posted October 1, 2008 Report Share Posted October 1, 2008 that is fantastic, those are awesome photos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snorkel Posted October 1, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2008 Thanks guys. Heres one more... Nah, make that two more... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella Posted October 1, 2008 Report Share Posted October 1, 2008 duuuuude! nice! I have been taking heaps of photos of my fish today, particularly the bluegill bullies. I swear my camera has forgotten how to take photos... I need a decent macro lens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snorkel Posted October 1, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2008 I know exactly what You mean. Some days all the fancy equipment in the world don't mean anything. Patience, perseverance, and a good dose of luck are certainly required. Taking photos of these fish was a steep learning curve for Me. I had difficulty getting "true to life" colors. It was the first time I had to use the custom white ballance feature. White-spot cure gives photos a weird color cast! So did the flouro light. Long tripod exposures were necassary as well. Try telling a nesting bully to be still... He just wouldn't listen! He got agitated every time I set the camera in front of him, so in the end I just left it set up right in his face. Still, every time he saw my "giant eye" looking he got nervous and started skittering around even more than usual. I used a digital SLR with a 50mm macro lens. I even had a go with my wifes compact point and shoot in a underwater case! Results were dissapointing however. The gutsy little bully wouldn't leave his nest even with all that hardware controlled by giant white hands getting right in his face! Brave little fish.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caper Posted October 1, 2008 Report Share Posted October 1, 2008 Really nice pics snorkel Where do you plan on putting all the fishies that hatch? Caper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snorkel Posted October 1, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2008 When they hatch Caper the male bully wiggles like crazy over them and they are scattered by the current. In my tank the other bullies immediately started to eat them! I couldn't take that, so I placed them in a large plastic container I had maturing in the garden to collect mosquito larvae. It was all green and bursing with life fit for new born fry. They are doing ok. There must be a couple of hundred easy. I'm planning on releasin 'em back where I got the adults from when they are a little bit bigger. Most likely a completely pointless exercise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caper Posted October 1, 2008 Report Share Posted October 1, 2008 Most likely a completely pointless exercise. What is pointless releasing them back into the wild? Isn't that a good thing? Caper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snorkel Posted October 2, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2008 They will not survive. I think if I raised thousands and millions of these fish and returned them to the wild, next year, there would not be any more than there is now..... All things are limited by their environment, and in this case it is a polluted filthy ditch with eels, goldfish, gambusia and inanga also living in it. Now that You've got me thinking about it, if I could remove some of the goldfish in there, that would be a good thing... unless you are a goldfish, that is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heir Posted October 3, 2008 Report Share Posted October 3, 2008 They will not survive. I think if I raised thousands and millions of these fish and returned them to the wild, next year, there would not be any more than there is now..... All things are limited by their environment, and in this case it is a polluted filthy ditch with eels, goldfish, gambusia and inanga also living in it. Now that You've got me thinking about it, if I could remove some of the goldfish in there, that would be a good thing... unless you are a goldfish, that is. Make sure they really are goldfish and not carp. If they are goldfish sell them on trademe! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella Posted October 3, 2008 Report Share Posted October 3, 2008 and use the gambusia as live food (technically illegal to possess live ones, killing them in ice water is safer) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heir Posted October 3, 2008 Report Share Posted October 3, 2008 and use the gambusia as live food (technically illegal to possess live ones, killing them in ice water is safer) Not technically, that is the exact law! I talked to a contact at DoC about it. DoC has given me permission to capture, kill, freeze and sell Gambusia as petfood if I felt the need. I just need to take the letter they've given me to MINFISH and get the ohk with them too, other various certs and I'm away lol I'd call the business Evil Guppy Inc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella Posted October 3, 2008 Report Share Posted October 3, 2008 Good on you for going the right way about it! Great idea, ESPECIALLY great name! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purplecatfish Posted October 4, 2008 Report Share Posted October 4, 2008 technically illegal to possess live ones Not technically, that is the exact law! Well not exactly... We (the company that I work for) are in possession of thousands of gambusia in some of our ponds and no-one can prosecute us or compel us to get rid of them. In fact I would like to get rid of them and replace them with native fish. However since it would cost us over $5000 to get permission to release native fish, let alone the actual eradication costs, I can't come up with a sound business case for getting rid of the gambusia. So the gambusia multiply and multiply... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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