HELP : Diseased tank (this is a long message)

[iisfaq]

Hi

I have a major problem in my tank:

Basic Story - It is stuffed, Fish all Dead

I bought 40 neons from Animates 3 weeks ago on a Saturday (fish fun day), within 24 hours a lot were dead, 48 hours almost all were dead. 72 hours all dead.

Also two Zebra Danios - Dead

Also other neons I had already - Dead

On that saturday I saw a white spot on one of the neons so I thought "White Spot" and I phoned animates - Since I wanted it fixed ( has this problem with buying neons from them before ) and without any hassle I offered them a deal for 1/2 price on the white spot cure. They agreed.

My tank is 300+ litres, I used only 60% of the recommended dose on the bottle.

Within 24 hours my neons were dying, the area in front of the caudral fin were going bright orange. This was the first sign of problems. I phoned animates and was told the manager would return my call (this was sunday). I did 100 litre water change

Monday - no contact, 100 litre water change

Tuesday - I phoned again and got hold of the duty manager. She was sympothetic but could not really help and I should ring back tomorrow when the real manager was at work.

I telephoned brooklands the makers of the white spot cure and spoke to a man there about the problem. He said it sounded more like a bacterial infection. I sent him photos of the problem.

I spoke the next day to the manager and she put me contacted their purchasing person. In the end I got his number and spoke to him, he arranged for me to get a dose of Furan 2 + Metafix. To be fair he gave me about 40 furan 2 tabs + melafix and said he would arrange to replace the dead fish when the tank got better. I had to go to animates tower junction to pick up the meds.

While there I spoke to the manager who said that the shipment of neons had come in the day before I bought them and they lost 50 fish. (most people would not sell to the public the next day)

I took the meds and used them but it did not look to be doing anything much. This was over about 4 more days.

About 1 week after the initial problem started 2 angle fish got a bloom of cotton wool type of disease near their pectrol fin. I spoke to Redwood Aquotics in Christchurch who said I should euthanize them since the tank had been having a lot of meds which did not help already. He suggested Furan 2 which is what I had been using if I was to give it a try.

He also suggested that I completly strip the tank down a clean it with Janola.

I euthanised the angels.

At this point - I had 1 fish left, a large Pleco - I have taken him out and put him in a small tank and will keep watching him.

Along the way I had to move the filter and ended up breaking a part called an AquaStop - It will take 1 week almost to get a replacement since the only supplier in NZ will not sell one direct to me.

I managed to glue the broken bit together and it is currently working.

Now the old tank has no fish, but snails + disease. It was sitting there until today with no heater, or filter, or air.

There has always been lots of snails in the tank because of plants purchased with them on them (again Animates)

I noticed yesterday a snail with what looked like a lump of gell on its head with little dots inside it.

Looking really closely I noticed that this gell was now on some of the plants and walls of the tank.

I took all the plants out today and washed them down but I think they will be destined to the bin. They have little blobs of gell on them again with little dots inside.

I do not know if this is more Snails, a disease, or what. I am thinking of taking a sample to the vet to look using a Microscope.

My tank is dead - all but one fish is dead, my plants look to be binned and I fell like taking the tank to the dump. Although I can not do that as I could never move it without 4 people and it would not fit in the car.

I really am at a loss....

I do not know what to do to clean up the tank - if I throw everything away, plants, stones, etc etc etc and clean with Janola at what strength would I use.

How do I know I have them removed the Janola?

I have never heard of using that product before.

And what if I miss one of these little gel things? can it survive and then reinfect my tank?

If anyone has any ideas I would love to know.

I for one will never buy any Fish & Plants from Animates ever again!

ps: The tank was setup about 6 months ago after we had to have the carpet replaced (different problem) prior to that the tank had been setup for 2 years.

The angels had been in there since I first setup this tank about 3 years ago and having to kill them was not nice and something you do not want to do.

Chris

[iisfaq]

Here is a pic of the neons before dying.

http://fish.crowe.co.nz/Images/fish_crowe_co_nz/deadneons.png

Chris

[jim r]

Would you like some guppy fry to get you started again I can give you as many as you like ? The gell is most probably snail eggs.

[imsweet]

Hey Chris, wow... what a bummer for you. I cant offer any help on the neons dying except i know some fish shops dont have the tank space to quarantine fish before selling so therefore just sell once theyre in their tanks. (I guess they should have warned you they were in the day before) , Also - these cute fish do get whitespot quite easily due to stress of moving tanks etc. The gel blobs are snail eggs. There are quite a few ppl on here that use janola to clean tanks and gear, then i believe they place the tank in the sun. Bit hard with a huge tank, but the sun is good for drying things out. Also if youre worried about the janola, vinegar neutralises it. (then you'll just have a vinegar smell). Good luck.

[jolliolli]

hi issfaq,

sorry to hear of all your problems, the gel blobs with small dots in them will almost certainly be snail eggs so i wouldn't worry about them. you have probably just noticed them now because either you had a fish that was eating them previously or you've jsut been looking at the tank more.

I am wondering if your fish have been infected with neon tetra disease, the pics do look like ones i've seen on the net ( i have not experienced it myself) and other susceptible fish are danios and angelfish which could explain the loss If you look in the link below your fish look a lot like these pics of the disease

http://www.aquarium-pond-answers.com/20 ... sease.html

[Dixon1990]

Neon tetra disease is usually A slow diseaes and take a while to wipe out a tank.

[jolliolli]

well there goes that idea..

[davidb]

how long was the tank set up before you added the fish?

[cesarz]

Hi Chris,

Looks like your fish had a virulent strain of columnaris. It will (note: the word "will" -not can) kill fish in just two to three days of exposure. All the symptoms you described including the fungus like growth point to this disease.

Since the lethal effect is too quick, it is better to dump everything, sterilise and start all over again.

According to literature, the most recomended fix is Furan but this will only fix the slow strain of columnaris.

Had this one happen to me about four years ago and tried to keep the remaining fish all that I was doing was propagating the disease. i only succeeded in keeping fish only after i let go of them and started all over again.

This happened to me again same time you had your problem. Bought some guppies from some source and did not quarantine them. Straight into the guppy tank, three days later 500 guppies gone all at the same time. Good thing I only introduced it to one tank and infected the next with splash of water from the infected tank. My other 10 tank full of guppies were not infected.

You would not want this disease ever in your fish tank.

Sorry for your loss and mine but all we can do is start all over again.

Just remember, quarantine fish before you add them to your tank for at least three weeks.

Cheers,

Cesar

[imsweet]

ps: The tank was setup about 6 months ago after we had to have the carpet replaced (different problem) prior to that the tank had been setup for 2 years.

I bought 40 neons from Animates 3 weeks ago on a Saturday (fish fun day), within 24 hours a lot were dead, 48 hours almost all were dead. 72 hours all dead.

I brought 6 neons from a well known pet store and the very next day all had whitespot, but none died from it. Treated as per insturctions. But they did eventually die off over about 6 months. Was told i probably brought "old stock".

[cesarz]

Hi Chris,

Just saw the pics you posted, it is definitely columnaris disease. Also called saddleback disease because of the light coloured growth accross the body of the fish when it gets infected.

Cheers,

Cesar

[iisfaq]

hi issfaq,

I am wondering if your fish have been infected with neon tetra disease, the pics do look like ones i've seen on the net

As you say the pics do look similar although the text says the skin turns white - but mine was orange.

Also some of the neons looked like somoene came and cut a section of skin off. You can see this in the neon at the top left ( the big one )

Also everyone got agressive. The Zebra danios ripped a neon to bits. Then the smaller Zebra was attacking the larger one.

Even Neon on Neon - it was quite terrible for a fish that is normally so plassid.

chris

[iisfaq]

Would you like some guppy fry to get you started again I can give you as many as you like ? The gell is most probably snail eggs.

Thanks for the offer of the guppies.

At this point I am going to take it slow... I stripped the tank right down today. I have bought some bleach and will dose it tonight and then clean it down with water, and maybe repeat tomorrow.

I think I will wait until next weekend or even later before I put any water in it.

Chris

[iisfaq]

Neon tetra disease is usually A slow diseaes and take a while to wipe out a tank.

My fish certainly looked a bit like the images in the http://www.aquarium-pond-answers.com/2007/02/neon-tetra-disease.html page.

What ever this disease was, it was fast.

Chris

[iisfaq]

Hi Chris,

Looks like your fish had a virulent strain of columnaris. It will (note: the word "will" -not can) kill fish in just two to three days of exposure. All the symptoms you described including the fungus like growth point to this disease.

Wow, this is really bad news and I wonder how many people who bought 3-4 got this and everything died and they just thought they stuffed something up.

From what I can determine:

Animates buy their neons from Brooklands and sell immediately.

Brooklands buy their neons from somewhere but normally do quarantine them.

Since the NZ market for general fish is pretty small I assume most fish come in via the same sources.

I suppose it is a matter of finding a good source.

I was very lucky at the time as I had 6 large discus which use to live in the same tank but put them in another tank prior to this purchase.

I use to have just the one, but currently I have 3. I really only want one.

Thanks for your comments and I too am sorry for your loss but there is one source that should be sorry - very sorry....

[iisfaq]

how long was the tank set up before you added the fish?

The tank had been up for 6+ months, prior to that 24+ months.

Chris

[iisfaq]

I brought 6 neons from a well known pet store and the very next day all had whitespot, but none died from it. Treated as per insturctions. But they did eventually die off over about 6 months. Was told i probably brought "old stock".

You sort of can tell if they are old or not.

If they look large for a neon (as in what you see other people have) then I would say they are older.

But saying this even 1 week they grow a lot which shows how little they get fed prior to purchase.

chris

[iisfaq]

Just saw the pics you posted, it is definitely columnaris disease. Also called saddleback disease because of the light coloured growth accross the body of the fish when it gets infected.

Cesar

Thanks for that - good to know - never want to see it again.

I do find it bad in NZ as you are basically stuffed here for meds.

I have travelled to USA and gone to Pet Smart and there are lots of drugs for lots of things that you can buy for your fish. Here in NZ we are so limited and they say go to the vet who charges you like $45+ just to speak for 10 mins.

I tried to bring a lot of meds back from my last trip to the USA - I declared them all and nice little customs man took them all - $100 down the drain.

All be cause it did not have a NZ code on them.

ps: They also do not like you bringing food back - I bought 6 300gram tetra flake, tropical crisps etc and they told me that if any I was only allowed one - but in this case they let me have it all. Probably since they took all the other stuff off me. one can see why people do not declare goods.

I even checked their web site prior to returning home to NZ - this means nothing - no NZ code - basically NO GO.

Why would anything you buy in USA have a NZ code!

Chris

[tracytrout]

Hi Chris

If you would like some Cabomba and a little Riccia when you get your tank set up again please PM me with your address and will send some your way....Good Luck setting your tank up again :bounce: :bounce:

Cheers

Tracy

[Spink]

Hey there,

We had a discussion about a similar problem at our last club meeting. The story as we heard it goes that Animates unfortunately ordered in stock for the Aqua Fun day, but the supplier had sent fish that had some sort of a disease (can't remember what it was called).

Some of the stores that were supplied the infected fish were offering to replace all the fish purchased on that day because they either had or would die eventually. One of the stores in our area had absolutely no fish to sell because just about every tank they had got infected and they couldn't risk selling the fish to the public.

I know that some people are more helpful than others, and it seems some of the Animates shops down here handled the situation better than others, but the problem stems from the supplier of the fish.

As far as we know there was no way to cure the fish and they die fairly quickly, within a few days.

In regards to the Janola - I have had the euthanise 35 fish due to an incurable infection, and have taken my tank downstairs to leave it soaking in bleach for about a month. Make sure you use a bleach with no scent, eg don't use Lemon, and I read somewhere else on here that if you shake the bottle up and down and bubbles appear and stay on the surface then don't use it. I got Budget brand bleach, and put about 1 litre in my little 40 litre tank, equipment and all.

My commiserations, and Good Luck - I know it sucks when you lose all your fish, and it seems the people responsible will not own up to it and help you out, but do what you can, and maybe you can get excited about starting again, redesigning the tank etc.

[bedazzled]

I was talking to some one at the LFS who said that some one up here had gone to Auckland for the Aqua fun days and bought fish that turned out to be infected with culaminarus (sp)

Scary thought when buying 1 fish can wipe out your whole tank. Would be great to have a Q tank but unfortunately it is not always possible

[jim r]

The offer of the guppies is an open one if/when just let me know.

[iisfaq]

Hey there,

We had a discussion about a similar problem at our last club meeting. The story as we heard it goes that Animates unfortunately ordered in stock for the Aqua Fun day, but the supplier had sent fish that had some sort of a disease (can't remember what it was called).

Hi

this sounds very much like I had. I can understand how a company could get bad fish and on sell. But in my case when they had 50 out of 150 die prior to their sale this says something to me.

It also makes you wonder why they really have these days - obviously sales is the key.

But 40 neons at $100 has cost me more than $100 in plants, let alone fish, and the stress.

My tank is dead - now cleaned with bleach. I have no stones, no plants, no nothing except 1 pleco which I moved to another tank.

I fore one will not take this risk and the fact that I know the original source of infection was Animates which got them from Brooklands means I will NEVER buy form either of these companies again.

But we all know that marketing will work and others will be put through similar problems again in the future, but I do not know how to help them.

For ME - they have cost me far more than the cost of the fish....

It is all over for them by me.

chris

[iisfaq]

The offer of the guppies is an open one if/when just let me know.

Hi

Thank you very much for the offer, I really like guppies, and have not had any for 20+ years (I had a long gap in between tanks)

I will have a good think about what I am going to do in regards to fish as I know their lovely little tails are in high demand by other fish for their diet.

I really can't say how much it means to me the generosity of others when people like me go through bad times.

Thanks

Chris

[Spink]

Hey Chris,

I guess it has been an expensive lesson learnt for you, and I completely understand how you feel - I went to Wet Pets in Palmerston North recently and wanted to purchase some Hengel's Rasboras they had. The guy told me he would not sell them as they had been through a bad batch of White Spot and had just not come right. I guess i was lucky.

Animates should have recognized there was a problem and not sold the fish, but I guess the pressure of and Aqua fun day with sales was too tempting.

I've lost over 85 fish in the last week to some unknown disease i can't cure, and have bleached 3 tanks so far, so I can sympathise with you right now - If I was in Christchurch I would offer fish too, but alas i am further away.

Stay positive though, and I'm sure you will get enthusiastic about fish keeping again soon. These things happen, but all we can do is deal with it and move on, even if it's COMPLETELY gutting at the time