Hoody Posted July 10, 2008 Report Share Posted July 10, 2008 I'm currently replacing all the light switch's, power point's ect through out my house and am thinking of fitting a RCD outlet plug near my tank. Anybody had any form of experiance with these? Obviously would be recommended?? Cost approx $100 for a 2 plug unit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WEKA Posted July 10, 2008 Report Share Posted July 10, 2008 I believe you need to weigh up the safety side with the other risks such as nuisance tripping. If you have a tidy set up and use common sense your tank should not pose an electrical hazard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WEKA Posted July 10, 2008 Report Share Posted July 10, 2008 Have a look at Jasmines posting "so upset" This is what can happen with RCDs etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpidersWeb Posted July 10, 2008 Report Share Posted July 10, 2008 If you get an RCD make SURE it turns back on after a power cut. Most do NOT do this but some do. For lighting this might be fine but for heaters/filters definately not ok to be off, specifically if you have a power cut mid-holiday. To be honest I have had the odd water + plug + my hand incident a few times, but it certainly wasn't life threatening for me. If you have a heart condition or similar then I'd say essential, but for someone like me who's had a fair share of 220V mains current, I'm not really that worried. The recommended advice however is RCD and drip loops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simian Posted July 10, 2008 Report Share Posted July 10, 2008 Give me a bell Hoody, I will give you some free advice and tell you all you need to know, before you make a decision. Owen Lingard Project Engineer Hennessy Electrical Engineering 07 849 2355 Anyone thinking about messing around with power please ring me first for free advice its not worth your life Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suphew Posted July 10, 2008 Report Share Posted July 10, 2008 Isn't it a regulation now that all (new) circuits have an RCD on them. I know your not putting in new circiuts but this give you an idea of how important they are. Not putting them in because of nuisance tripping is a bit like not putting fuses or circuit breaker in in-case they blow while you are being electrocuted. If they trip it is for a reason. Cheap plug in type ones can be touchy, but proper hard wired RCD's aren't, they will also come back on after power cuts. BTW if you wire an RCD on the first power point of a run it protects all the rest as well, so you only need one per circuit. Are you replacing the circuit breakers at your board?? If so why not put proper RCD's there instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suphew Posted July 10, 2008 Report Share Posted July 10, 2008 Have a look at Jasmines posting "so upset" This is what can happen with RCDs etc. Jasmines problem was with a surge board not an RCD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puttputt Posted July 10, 2008 Report Share Posted July 10, 2008 Spidersweb, wow, shocking advise. IMO noone should be running a tank, marine especially, without a RCD. and your a mod???, telling people a little bit of water and 240v is ok, not life threatening?. You should think before writing that crap, you going to be responsible when someones little kid gets electrocuted, cause the chap on the site said RCDs were more trouble than they are worth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpidersWeb Posted July 10, 2008 Report Share Posted July 10, 2008 Like I said, RCDs and drip loops are recommended advice, and certainly essential to those with a heart condition or any kind of medical condition that could be affected by electric current. You should take in to consideration others around you as well. But I personally haven't had problems with electric shocks, I've had them direct by wire and through water. The only danger I've had is cracked heater in a 200L tank, which pulsed my arm in the water, however I was still able to control it and pull it out. After thinking about worse case scenarios it I agree its certainly not good advice as you've suggested above, but off the forum a lot of fish keeping is more casual than the in theory recommendations. In my sitation nobody goes near the power circuits except me, if you had children or family members around I wouldn't take the risk. As for the RCD, just make sure to get one that auto turns back on when the power is cut. If you can get a powerpoint with this feature I'd definately get it installed if you're replacing them anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ant N Posted July 11, 2008 Report Share Posted July 11, 2008 When I recently had new power points added I had to replace the existing fuse(fuse wire type) with an RCD. Plug in replacement was about $30or $40 not expensive, I was told it was Law to have RCD protection now. That is for new or upgraded circuits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaNs Posted July 11, 2008 Report Share Posted July 11, 2008 I dont think more than 30% of people on here would have RCD's on their tanks gear. I dont have any RCD's on my tanks but use them with power tools haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted July 11, 2008 Report Share Posted July 11, 2008 When I recently had new power points added I had to replace the existing fuse(fuse wire type) with an RCD. Plug in replacement was about $30or $40 not expensive, I was told it was Law to have RCD protection now. That is for new or upgraded circuits. Are you sure you have an RCD or a circuit breaker? Or does it do both? Because they do two totally different things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richms Posted July 11, 2008 Report Share Posted July 11, 2008 All plug in ones are supposed to trip when the power into them fails - thats since it means that the attached powertool wont restart when power comes back on. The only one I have found that doesnt is the ringgrip bodyguard. Cant find them new anymore and they seem much worse then the PDL ones for false tripping. The socket outlet and the breaker panel ones will all not trip when the power goes out, so either way your fine, but sometimes they will trip when power comes back because its not a smooth resumption so there is a lot of noise on the power. Also, surge protectors downstream from an RCD make them more prone to tripping on small spikes since they will send the spike to ground, which makes the RCD trip. If you dont have an RCD, just turn off the power before working on the tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwipete Posted July 11, 2008 Report Share Posted July 11, 2008 To be honest I have had the odd water + plug + my hand incident a few times, but it certainly wasn't life threatening for me. If you have a heart condition or similar then I'd say essential, but for someone like me who's had a fair share of 220V mains current, I'm not really that worried. Im sorry but this is the dumbest statement I have heard yet. It only takes a few milliamps to stop the heart! Consider yourself very lucky indeed and go buy a lotto ticket. I have completely re-wired our switchboard and have a total of 4 RCD's on it for protecting various zones of our house. If you have everything wired up properly on your tank, you will have no problems with it tripping. They only trip when there is an imbalance across the phase/neutral/earth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquarium Dude Posted July 11, 2008 Report Share Posted July 11, 2008 Our whole house is covered by to rcds mounted on the switchboard, I know this because once when I turned the tank on it tripped it. (I think the surge must have caused it) Half of the houses power failed. These obviosly turn back on after power cut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suphew Posted July 11, 2008 Report Share Posted July 11, 2008 Our whole house is covered by to rcds mounted on the switchboard, I know this because once when I turned the tank on it tripped it. (I think the surge must have caused it) Half of the houses power failed. These obviosly turn back on after power cut. You might be confusing your MCB's (mini circuit breaker) with RCD's, they are completely different beast's. I would pay to check and not just assume you have RCD's because as Ira and I said they do different jobs. An RCD will have test and reset buttons and usually a power light. A MCB will have a single switch or on some a big round push in button and a very small round push in button. A MCB will also have an amp rating on it 10,15,20 etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella Posted July 11, 2008 Report Share Posted July 11, 2008 Very interesting thread! Such important stuff. SpidersWeb made a very good point about drip loops. For those who don't know what they are imagine a drip of water running down a power cable. If it can run straight down to the socket: bad news. If the cable is looped so the drip can't run straight down (drips can't run uphill!) then it is much safer. Just looking at my multiboard under my riffle tank now.... scary. I really must do something about it! Far too much chance of zappage from a minor overflow! The multiboard is merely sitting on a low shelf under the tank, all cables run directly down to it. I should put in a few screws so it is mounted higher up. Immediate drip-loops and safe from pooling water. Ok, what other quick fixes can we do to help not get zapped? Early, simple prevention. What are the most common causes of shocks to the aquarist? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puttputt Posted July 11, 2008 Report Share Posted July 11, 2008 All plug in ones are supposed to trip when the power into them fails - thats since it means that the attached powertool wont restart when power comes back on. The only one I have found that doesnt is the ringgrip bodyguard. Cant find them new anymore and they seem much worse then the PDL ones for false tripping. The socket outlet and the breaker panel ones will all not trip when the power goes out, so either way your fine, but sometimes they will trip when power comes back because its not a smooth resumption so there is a lot of noise on the power. Also, surge protectors downstream from an RCD make them more prone to tripping on small spikes since they will send the spike to ground, which makes the RCD trip. If you dont have an RCD, just turn off the power before working on the tank. The ones I use to use have a multiboard as part of them and do not (thats right, do not) have to be manually restarted after a power cut. It amazes me we have people posting on here saying they have never used one, and they dont need one, and only 30% of people use them etc etc. You should hide the fact that you are stupid, not tell everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquarium Dude Posted July 12, 2008 Report Share Posted July 12, 2008 The things we have say rcd and they have a test button and an on off switch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richms Posted July 12, 2008 Report Share Posted July 12, 2008 You might be confusing your MCB's (mini circuit breaker) with RCD's, they are completely different beast's. I would pay to check and not just assume you have RCD's because as Ira and I said they do different jobs. An RCD will have test and reset buttons and usually a power light. A MCB will have a single switch or on some a big round push in button and a very small round push in button. A MCB will also have an amp rating on it 10,15,20 etc Some din mount RCDs are the combination ones that do both, so they do have an amp rating on them, but are only single width. Better to do that then have a couple of rcds doing the whole house since one circuit tripping will only take out that one circuit. I know the sparky was bitching when installing them since they are taller then the normal breakers he had to move most of the board around to get them to fit since they would only go on the bottom 2 rails in the board, the top one was hitting something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ant N Posted July 12, 2008 Report Share Posted July 12, 2008 Sorry my mistake!! replaced fuse wire with mini circuit breaker... sparky mate said I should have RCD (cost more ) Circuit breaker better than fuse wire ...trips out faster!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoody Posted July 12, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 12, 2008 Give me a bell Hoody, I will give you some free advice and tell you all you need to know, before you make a decision. Owen Lingard Project Engineer Hennessy Electrical Engineering 07 849 2355 Anyone thinking about messing around with power please ring me first for free advice its not worth your life Cool, thanks Simian! Will do that! Wow! Never thought i'd cause this much of a stir!!? Seem's most people like myself have been pretty slack in this department, and should be doing something about it. Considering your average tank has a minimum of 3 plug's normally going into one socket with hundred's of litres of water hovering above, it's not somthing im willing to take a risk with. Personally I'd rather loose my fish than my house and/or life. Also, does anybody know if most of the power point (hard wired) unit's turn back on after being "tripped"? Thanks for all the advise and opinions too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwipete Posted July 12, 2008 Report Share Posted July 12, 2008 Also, does anybody know if most of the power point (hard wired) unit's turn back on after being "tripped"? IMHO you should not have anything that re-sets itself when tripped, its down right bloody dangerous. The reason for something tripping in the first place is that there is a fault on the circuit. You do not want to be the one causing the fault only to discover it re-sets itself causing you to be the fault all over again, do you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camnbron Posted July 12, 2008 Report Share Posted July 12, 2008 What the electrical rules now state is basically if you alter your house in a way that has an impact on the switchboard - additions, moving switchboard, replacing fuseholders with hardwired circuit breakers (not the plug in ones) - then the electrical installation must be made to comply with the current NZAS 3000:20007 electrical wiring regulations. In domestic and residential installations it is now required to have RCD's protecting the lighting and power point circuits. For existing houses its sweet as if you don't alter your house - you don't have to add the RCD's. A couple of exemptions: If there is a dialysis machine it is not to be supplied from a RCD protected circuit. If you add a power point or light switch and lamp to an existing unprotected circuit (No RCD) you do not have to add an RCD. Couple of tips: The RCD goes in the after the main switch on the switchboard and supplies the lighting and powerpoint circuit breakers. Get the sparky to install a couple of RCDs and split the circuits - lights from one end of the house with the power points from the other end of the house. Then if one RCD trips under fault condition you can at least plug a lamp into a powerpoint or see what is faulty in the house. One tip, when you get RCDs installed, get the sparky to install a couple, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richms Posted July 12, 2008 Report Share Posted July 12, 2008 The amendments that are either about to go thru or just have gone thru say that there is a max of 3 circuits per rcd, and the lighting circuits must be distributed across them all. If I was to replace the board here, that would mean 5 or 6 RCDs upstream of the existing breakers, meaning a bigger panel (again, just got the last one in before the first rcd rules came in) and god knows what else. Oh yeah, i would also have to upgrade the sub boards in the garage and the shed to have RCDs as well since they are not separate installations as far as they are concerned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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