Slightly Blue Dalmation Posted June 13, 2008 Report Share Posted June 13, 2008 i know the law is there, but it doesnt make it a good one. the give way to the right road rule is there and has to be followed, doesnt make it any less silly though. just off the side, BK have you tried contacting MAF or anyone to see what they have to say? yeah they are likely to say sod off but can not try take a formal approach to see if can do anything? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidb Posted June 13, 2008 Report Share Posted June 13, 2008 ooh how come nobody told me about this thread. I have yet to say my two cents. Oh as an Ecologist Im on Conches side by the way. I agree that govt authorities have stuffed up in the past- for example letting ferrets and stoats in to control rabbits- against Scientific and Public consensus- but who wanted the rabbits here in the first place? the public (through acclimatisation societies). NZ has some of the most stringent biodiversity laws in place and they are in place for a reason. New Zealand's clean green image, even if it is not entirely true, is the country's number one economic asset and blanket bans on the importation of some animals, like parrots may not please everybody, but they are for the greter ecological good. Of course there will always be idiots who cheat the system for personal gain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BK Posted June 13, 2008 Report Share Posted June 13, 2008 Conch I think you will find they don't have the time or money to spend on the approval process of the permits so don’t consider them. There is a process in place but no guarantee that they will actually review them. I have the paper work but was told this straight off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David R Posted June 13, 2008 Report Share Posted June 13, 2008 blanket bans on the importation of some animals, like parrots may not please everybody, but they are for the greter ecological good. Of course there will always be idiots who cheat the system for personal gain How is it for the "greater ecological good" when many of the species are already here and being bred? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BK Posted June 13, 2008 Report Share Posted June 13, 2008 David it is an important issue but if we have blanket bands on one thing why don’t we have these across the board. What is stopping them from banning the importation of fish? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidb Posted June 13, 2008 Report Share Posted June 13, 2008 Conch I think you will find they don't have the time or money to spend on the approval process of the permits so don’t consider them. There is a process in place but no guarantee that they will actually review them. I have the paper work but was told this straight off. I think you have to look at the causes of the decline in Kea... I think it is fair to say that the number one cause in the decline in Kea populations is through hunting. I agree with you that active management is necessary, but what is the point of active management if you have no suitable habitat to re-release the birds from your programme? Surely education and habitat protection are the most important agendas to fulfil? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidb Posted June 13, 2008 Report Share Posted June 13, 2008 David it is an important issue but if we have blanket bands on one thing why don’t we have these across the board. What is stopping them from banning the importation of fish? I would say the thing stopping blanket bans across the board is public pressure BK. I am not saying blanket bans are the most suitable solution but they are successful in protecting biodiversity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidb Posted June 13, 2008 Report Share Posted June 13, 2008 How is it for the "greater ecological good" when many of the species are already here and being bred? Surely you can understand that the greater number of alien species we have in New Zealand result in greater possible risks. It like saying, sure we have Weasels, Ferrets and Stoats here in NZ already so there wont be any issues bringing in Badgers, Polecats and a few otters just so we have the full spectrum of Mustelids here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slightly Blue Dalmation Posted June 13, 2008 Report Share Posted June 13, 2008 he doesnt want to bring them in as a species to live in the wild though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BK Posted June 13, 2008 Report Share Posted June 13, 2008 David there are a number of zoos putting pressure on now for the importation of parrots but for some reason there is a lot of resistance. It will be interesting what the results of the Kea survey is as they state that lead nails could be killing a lot of Kea in the mountains, I don't think any one knows but would have a guess its pest like rats and ferrets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BK Posted June 13, 2008 Report Share Posted June 13, 2008 http://www.keaconservation.co.nz/keares ... t-projects For those poeple that want to help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Posted June 13, 2008 Report Share Posted June 13, 2008 if you want to import Birds then do this... Apply for MAF to create and IHS for the birds intended. Select your list VERY carefully, only select birds that there is many proven documents that can prove that they cant survive in NZ... In this IHS state that they can only be imported into a containment facility. After you get this all done (may be up to 3 years) get them into the country... breed them... Then go to ERMA and they will let you release them if you can prove that they cant survive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidb Posted June 13, 2008 Report Share Posted June 13, 2008 he doesnt want to bring them in as a species to live in the wild though Have you wondered where the Caulerpa taxifolia in America came from? Or feral cats, the Rainbor lorikeet in New Zealand? The list goes on... I have more examples pest species enering natural ecosystems from hobbiest if you want... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BK Posted June 13, 2008 Report Share Posted June 13, 2008 Charlie I think you will find they don't have the time or money to spend on the approval process of the permits so don’t consider them. There is a process in place but no guarantee that they will actually review them. I have the paper work but was told this straight off. There has been a lot of work done over the years but they're not interested at look into this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BK Posted June 13, 2008 Report Share Posted June 13, 2008 But David that just shows we should ban all imports of every thing including fish, say guppies, livebearers, catfish where should we stop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slightly Blue Dalmation Posted June 13, 2008 Report Share Posted June 13, 2008 with the kinds of parrots he is after, they would have to a) have lots of money to get one b) assume get special permits etc to keep them so not every man and his dog would have a spare 20K to go out in the weekend and buy one. There would always be the odd exception but with that kind of money very unlikely. It would be the enthusiasts that would have them with no intent of releasing them into the wild to see what happens Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VinsonMassif Posted June 13, 2008 Report Share Posted June 13, 2008 he doesnt want to bring them in as a species to live in the wild though But if you allow any exotic species in, that means it is available to *everyone*. Not everyone cares about protecting the native fauna. They will be released into the wild by some moron along the line. It is inevitable. Trying to bring something in saying you don't *intend* to release it is not a great defense at all IMO. Also if one is willing to spend tens of THOUSANDS of dollars for one bird then why don't you simply spend half of that, move across the ditch and have a menagerie of them legally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BK Posted June 13, 2008 Report Share Posted June 13, 2008 But Vinson that means we should ban all important of all live animals. So where do we draw the line and how should this be decided. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slightly Blue Dalmation Posted June 13, 2008 Report Share Posted June 13, 2008 if spending that amount of money there not generally a need to use that as a defence , also as someone said earlier one parrot isnt gunna make babies on its own and thats if it survives Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tHEcONCH Posted June 13, 2008 Report Share Posted June 13, 2008 But Vinson that means we should ban all important of all live animals. So where do we draw the line and how should this be decided. No it doesn't. What it means is that we shouldn't add to the damage already done, i.e. we should learn from our ancestors mistakes. Anyway, the only way we will settle this is with an arm wrestle. Who's keen? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slightly Blue Dalmation Posted June 13, 2008 Report Share Posted June 13, 2008 bare knuckle boxing is much more decisive :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BK Posted June 13, 2008 Report Share Posted June 13, 2008 Vinson I should have the same rights as you to import animals with the same risk as you have in your tank/ back yard. Why should I have fewer rights than you because your animals have fur and scales while mine have feathers? This is the whole point if the law was fear across the board there would be nothing to discuss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slightly Blue Dalmation Posted June 13, 2008 Report Share Posted June 13, 2008 anyway, why should learning from mistakes mean that it shouldnt be done? yeah rabbits and possums etc were a dumb move, but they are clearly not the same as a macaw so IMO not a good reason not too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slightly Blue Dalmation Posted June 13, 2008 Report Share Posted June 13, 2008 as to the clown that would let it go, compulsory microchips or along those lines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tHEcONCH Posted June 13, 2008 Report Share Posted June 13, 2008 ...yeah rabbits and possums etc were a dumb move, but they are clearly not the same as a macaw so IMO not a good reason not too. The point is that they didn't know the danger at the time, released them, then regretted it. They made the best decision they could given the information they had at the time, but it was still the wrong decision in retrospect. Being unaware of a danger doesn't make it any less dangerous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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