ryanjury Posted June 3, 2008 Report Share Posted June 3, 2008 After loosing all my golds I was only left with the best long fin male.. So I got some blue ram's and he has finally paired with a female and they have laid.. I am hoping to produce some more golds long finned golds and hopefully long finned blues from these 2 and their offspring.. Only time will tell if I can actually raise the babies! Heres some pics.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cichlid7 Posted June 3, 2008 Report Share Posted June 3, 2008 wow very nice fish love the golds fins good luck and i hope you can raise them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olly Posted June 3, 2008 Report Share Posted June 3, 2008 if you raise them i want some Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kokako Posted June 3, 2008 Report Share Posted June 3, 2008 congrats and good luck very nice fish i've not seen the LFs before, he is awesome! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitzy Posted June 3, 2008 Report Share Posted June 3, 2008 He looks like my gold just a little bigger Good luck with raising them, Hope u have better luck than me tho I have learned where i went wrong just waiting for female gold to fatten up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Afrikan Posted June 3, 2008 Report Share Posted June 3, 2008 Awesome ryan.......... just knew you could do it, you were only telling me last night that you were going to get them to breed... I have my fingers crossed big time here for ya... and the rams 8) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanjury Posted June 3, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 3, 2008 lol well im stealing the eggs soon.. Theres too many fish in that tank for them to have any chance hopefully I have some luck this time.. Makhaela once I get some raised ill make sure I get some to you so that when I kill them all you have back up lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Afrikan Posted June 3, 2008 Report Share Posted June 3, 2008 I glad we got this back up thing sussed ryan :lol: Sounds like a plan, I will be doing the same... I am so darn well glad Johanni went to you and Tiden, as you guys are my backup for those :lol: :lol: :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanjury Posted June 3, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 3, 2008 Would you breed a red with a blue strain of guppy? Or a blue discus with a red one? Gold rams are just a random colour variety bred out of blue's so no hybrids are created Chances are all of their babies will turn out blue but carry the gold gene (unless the female is also a gold carrier).. And I will have to breed back to get the gold to come out.. I'm sure you know that I am very against hybrid fish being created and/or sold.. If anything random occurs with this I will get rid of all the babies and breed the blues true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanjury Posted June 3, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 3, 2008 Have ran this by several breeders and they all agree it is fine.. I am also hoping that with the blue and gold gene pulls being so far away (I am assuming) that the resulting babies should be alot hardier than inbred ones.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingart Posted June 3, 2008 Report Share Posted June 3, 2008 IMO offspring should be stronger, and breeding gold females back to dad will further the gold ram strain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanjury Posted June 3, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 3, 2008 Oh no worries, was juss wondering. As I said, Congrats. (FYI) No I wouldnt purposly breed one colour against another, but if it had happen, then watever. If your left with one fish that you want to continue or develop sometimes you have no other option but to cross it with other colours and cross back its called line breeding livingart I am hoping they will be stronger have had a nightmare keeping them alive.. I am thinking if the gold gene is recessive then all of the spawn will be blues but gold carriers? And I need to cross one of these back to the dad or 2 of these together to get any golds at all? LOL that is assuming I can raise any babies.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingart Posted June 3, 2008 Report Share Posted June 3, 2008 as Clint Eastwood would say "you just have to ask yourself one question, do you feel lucky" if it is recessive you may have to try more than one female if they are blues when doing colour varieties is always best for the strain to bring a normal back in every couple of generations, makes the line stronger or if you can start with 2 lines with unrelated out crosses to further strengthen the strain good luck and may at least half the babies be golds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiden Posted June 3, 2008 Report Share Posted June 3, 2008 Hope you get the babies goin Ryan :bounce: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanjury Posted June 3, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 3, 2008 lol me too Livingart, I would be happy just to raise this batch, I have 4 spawns between the gold pairs that I had but didn't raise one baby, they always hatched but died soon after, then I lost them all except for the male that is breeding.. I don't know if they are weaker and harder to raise or if I just screwed up every time.. Only time will tell I guess they are in a bowl in the heated fishroom with an airstone and meth blue, this male has had egg's hatch before so there shouldn't be any fertility issues.. I am hoping to get some golds in the first batch lol but like you said its all luck and at the very least maybe ill produce some nice strong blues that are gold gene carriers Mitzy good luck with yours! What did you do wrong with your spawn? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingart Posted June 3, 2008 Report Share Posted June 3, 2008 IMO when breeding colour varieties they usually start off with one or a few arriving in a batch from a normal pair to then fix the colour, line breeding to both parents or putting siblings together usually occurs a new colour most times commands a better price so usually these lines become a "closed line" to keep the colour coming through fry can be difficult to raise already without including weaknesses from continued inbreeding as well imported fish may have all come from the same breeder and even from the same batch, so usually we start off from an already inbred line so if your fry work out you should have a nice strong line of gold rams in nz good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon1990 Posted June 3, 2008 Report Share Posted June 3, 2008 Are they actually long fins? Or has the male just got good extensions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingart Posted June 3, 2008 Report Share Posted June 3, 2008 Are they actually long fins? Or has the male just got good extensions? $160 WORTH OF EXTENSIONS AT THE HAIR SALON Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanjury Posted June 3, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 3, 2008 I would call them long fin, I haven't seen a ram like this before.. But I haven't seen everything, the tail is also long and flowing kind of jagged not just extended top and bottom.. The eggs made it through the night with none fungusing.. So thats a good start.. I believe that is how it goes too Livingart, if they get a random colour or trait they inbreed the crap out of them until it gets pure, thats got to make them somewhat weaker.. I also managed to get some awesome cockatoo's off a very good local breeder who crossed them back to wild they're colouring up nicely so hoping they are pretty hardy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kokako Posted June 4, 2008 Report Share Posted June 4, 2008 if it is recessive you may have to try more than one female if they are blues if the gold mutation is recessive and the blue female carries only blue genes then all of the offspring will look blue, however all will carry the recessive gold gene. so if any these are breed back to the father you should get an average of 50% golds and 50% blues(also carring the gold gene but not showing it). the other option would be to breed the offspring with each other which should give you 25% golds on average. things get a bit more complex in this situation because you have two different mutations, colour and fin length, that you are dealing with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 4, 2008 Report Share Posted June 4, 2008 Congrats on breeding them. I hope you manage to raise the fry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kokako Posted June 4, 2008 Report Share Posted June 4, 2008 can you get long fin blues? if not then it is likely that mutation is a result of the high level of inbreeding in the golds. It may also be the same case for gold balloon rams, i have never seen a balloon blue ram. but i haven't even scratched the surface yet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon1990 Posted June 4, 2008 Report Share Posted June 4, 2008 can you get long fin blues? if not then it is likely that mutation is a result of the high level of inbreeding in the golds. It may also be the same case for gold balloon rams, i have never seen a balloon blue ram. but i haven't even scratched the surface yet Start of last year i was seeing balloon blues everywhere and no golds, then the blues went and the golds came. And someone on these forums had some longfin blues once. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kokako Posted June 4, 2008 Report Share Posted June 4, 2008 long fin blues would be cool Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanjury Posted June 4, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 4, 2008 if the gold mutation is recessive and the blue female carries only blue genes then all of the offspring will look blue, however all will carry the recessive gold gene. so if any these are breed back to the father you should get an average of 50% golds and 50% blues(also carring the gold gene but not showing it). the other option would be to breed the offspring with each other which should give you 25% golds on average. things get a bit more complex in this situation because you have two different mutations, colour and fin length, that you are dealing with. That was my understanding on the whole thing Heres hoping the male stays alive long enough to be bred back to! I am hoping that having a gold longfin will eventually produce blue longfins as well but I am unsure where it comes from and how it occurs geneitically. At the very least im hoping to breed some nice blue rams that might produce some gold babies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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