ts2000 queen skimmer

[reef]

tangtastic wrote

This was Ultimate Reefs tank of the month and it has no skimmer.

http://www.ultimatereef.com/TOTM/2008_march/

That is another way of exporting nutrients, buy having a living ecosystems in the sump.

So if you dont use a skimmer you do it another way. You still missed the point of having a good export solution. a Ineffective skimmer does not do it.

In my opinion a mint planted tank is harder to achieve than a good looking marine tank.

You must have so lets see some mint reef tank pics if it is easy. i am still trying to achieve a mint reef tank.

Poor quality stock is a bigger problem than a cheap skimmer.

Not sure what you mean as most stock is decent 90% of the time. hard getting 100% quality stock when dealing with wild fish.

Marine fish don't need water conditions any better than freshwater fish

Corals??

[tangtastic]

tangtastic wrote

That is another way of exporting nutrients, buy having a living ecosystems in the sump.

So if you dont use a skimmer you do it another way. You still missed the point of having a good export solution. a crap skimmer does not do it

My point is you don't have to invest a fortune in a skimmer to do it. People new to the hobby don't want to spend a fortune on a hobby they are still not sure about.

tangtastic wrote

You must have so lets see some mint reef tank pics if it is easy. i am still trying to achieve a mint reef tank.

Don't be so hard on yourself. I am sure your tank would be considered mint by everyone accept you.

I mean planted tanks like this:

tangtastic wrote

Not sure what you mean as most stock is decent 90% of the time. hard getting 100% quality stock when dealing with wild fish.

Yes but if you buy it when it is the other 10% you are probably doomed. Always better to start with the healthiest stock you can and part of that is knowing what to look for in a healthy fish. Most stores will sell it to you if you are none the wiser.

[Drifty]

I have been in this hobby for around 7 years, I have 6 skimmers in my garage at the moment and I only use 2 of them. I have an aquamedic, a queen, a red sea berlin , a reef octopus and 2 deltecs, can you guess which ones I am using?

Best advice I can give is to buy the best gear you can afford, you WILL upgrade in the future.

[reef]

I mean planted tanks like this:

looks basic to me to achieve that, reef tanks are way harder to get looking what i would class as mint as you put it.

[Zev]

Marine fish don't need water conditions any better than freshwater fish (bar the obvious salinity). All fish like zero ammonia and zero nitrite. In my opinion a mint planted tank is harder to achieve than a good looking marine tank.

Marine fish may not, but corals and invertibrates do, there are many more variables to consider when keeping these.

You cannot achieve 'a mint planted tank' with substandard filter, lighting or Co2 system.

[reef]

You cannot achieve 'a mint planted tank' with substandard filter, lighting or Co2 system.

well put, as you still have to invest in good quality equipment to get a mint planted tank. maybe not to the same $ amount as a reef tank but more than a diy special.

Also good to get new hobbyist starting with a good setup so we get a better standard of tanks in NZ. rather than some ok and others looking like they did in the 1970s.

[tangtastic]

I have been in this hobby for around 7 years, I have 6 skimmers in my garage at the moment and I only use 2 of them. I have an aquamedic, a queen, a red sea berlin , a reef octopus and 2 deltecs, can you guess which ones I am using?

Best advice I can give is to buy the best gear you can afford, you WILL upgrade in the future.

You should sell the other ones. I am sure there are plenty of hobbyists that would buy them.

Deltec skimmers are also hard to get in NZ. HFF is the only stockist in Auckland and I personally don't like dealing with them. I asked at Origin and was told the NZ supplier will not supply them. Is there anyone else who stocks them?

well put, as you still have to invest in good quality equipment to get a mint planted tank. maybe not to the same $ amount as a reef tank but more than a diy special.

My point was not cost related it was how hard it is to achieve.

Also good to get new hobbyist starting with a good setup so we get a better standard of tanks in NZ. rather than some ok and others looking like they did in the 1970s.

All things considered, I think setups in NZ are of a very high standard considering our lower availability to access the same range of livestock, the smaller range of hardware (unless you import it yourself) and the higher prices we pay for it.

Doesn't Cookie Extreme use Red Sea Berlin protein skimmers? I didn't get to see his tank before it crashed (power cut not skimmer related) but from what I heard may people thought it was impressive.

[camnbron]

Deltec skimmers are also hard to get in NZ. HFF is the only stockist in Auckland and I personally don't like dealing with them. I asked at Origin and was told the NZ supplier will not supply them. Is there anyone else who stocks them?

I haven't seen them for sale in the Rotorua store either. This is the same for tunze equipment. They have both on their display tanks just don't have any equipment for sale. It doesn't make sense to me why the equipment is not in shops - you can't sell it if customers can't see it.

I have had to resort to buying secondhand or parallel imported equipment because I cannot buy it from my local fish store :evil:

Is there a worldwide shortage of this gear or is it just because we are in New Zealand? Either way it doesn't help either companies reputation.

[RTBS]

I haven't seen them for sale in the Rotorua store either. This is the same for tunze equipment. They have both on their display tanks just don't have any equipment for sale. It doesn't make sense to me why the equipment is not in shops - you can't sell it if customers can't see it.

I have had to resort to buying secondhand or parallel imported equipment because I cannot buy it from my local fish store :evil:

Is there a worldwide shortage of this gear or is it just because we are in New Zealand? Either way it doesn't help either companies reputation.

Personally I would say because there are so few of us, shops don't stock the gear, market forces and all that. I purchased my first skimmer overseas, latest one Locally as I wanted local support, Both start with a big D. Local one would have been about the same cost if I imported by the time freight and GST were added.

Our local LFS has been very helpful however they are expensive I have found Bruce @ Deco City to provide excellent service and competitive prices, can supply most equipment to order etc etc. I think there is just not the market here for all the required equipment so many stores aren't interested in stocking any marine stuff, I can totally understand this as they are there to make a profit, its not generally their hobby as well.

[reef]

deltec skimmers are also hard to get in NZ. HFF is the only stockist in Auckland and I personally don't like dealing with them. I asked at Origin and was told the NZ supplier will not supply them. Is there anyone else who stocks them?

tangtastic you out of touch with reality, Deltec skimmers are available at most stores and most are pre ordered as it cost money to hold these.

In fact most specialised equipment is on indent due to costs.

Do you think pet shops have unlimited budgets to hold products for such a small niche market?

All things considered, I think setups in NZ are of a very high standard considering our lower availability to access the same range of livestock, the smaller range of hardware (unless you import it yourself) and the higher prices we pay for it.

Again your perception is based on limited knowledge of the industry or business philosophy.

We are pretty lucky in nz with the livestock we get and top quality equipment is available. as mentioned is hard for a retail stores to justify the costs of holding these.

Its a fact of life that things cost more in nz because retailers cant work on low margins due to low turnover, its not like overseas where they have far higher turnover so they can work on low margins.

Even importing these for a wholesaler is very costly due to the stock that has to be held and that is why the main wholesalers in Nz dont supply any top brands due to the costs, thus it is only small suppliers that brings these in. and done part time as no money in it to make it a job.

Doesn't Cookie Extreme use Red Sea Berlin protein skimmers?

Once again misinformed and there is always a exception to the rule,

You seem to overlook that he runs a massive pump on the skimmer and has more experience in keeping a reef tank than most of us.

Is there a worldwide shortage of this gear or is it just because we are in New Zealand?

As above. comes down to costs and will only improve if hobbyist ask the retail to stock them and the retailer has to see that it is worth holding them , no good just sitting on the shelves collecting dust.

[puttputt]

and all those chemicals he doses daily

Reefs correct.

There is too much poor advise from people who know little.

That is why you see numerous marine tanks started and shut down a few months later and sold on trade me etc, full of green algae and sad livestock. Poor advise from know it alls and nasty equipment not doing the job it should

don't get me started on the people that quit, or continually change things because they don't have a nice tank after 3 weeks :evil:

[camnbron]

As above. comes down to costs and will only improve if hobbyist ask the retail to stock them and the retailer has to see that it is worth holding them , no good just sitting on the shelves collecting dust.

So I understand what you are saying here, if my local retailer wants to stock Tunze and Deltec (and that is what they tell me), they should not have any problem with getting the stock from the supplier?

Is there anything else that would stop this from happening?

[reef]

So I understand what you are saying here, if my local retailer wants to stock Tunze and Deltec (and that is what they tell me), they should not have any problem with getting the stock from the supplier?

Is there anything else that would stop this from happening?

No problem at all. Ardie has sold a number of deltec skimmers and Tunze products.

[wasp]

Probably, it's just an issue that to put a range of skimmers and other equipment on the shelf would cost quite a few thousand dollars, and if there is only one new hobbyist starting in the area each few months then the turnover will not justify the expense.

But any marine lfs ought to be happy to order stuff in for you, ( I would hope anyway), if you know what you want.

On another issue, personally I think the standard of reefkeeping in NZ compares favourably with the rest of the world. Of course we see photos of awesome overseas tanks, but these are the cream of the crop. If you look at the average tank on RC, it will not be any better than the average NZ tank, there are some lovely NZ tanks, and some great people doing it.

We all know about Reefs tank but I also enjoyed looking at the recent pics of Puttputts tank, well conceived, natural, and a joy to look at. I can't name all the other people with nice tanks there's too many but luckily I don't feel I have to compare against these people or be the best or anything.

To me, this is after all a hobby, my tank will never be the greatest but it gives me pleasure and I enjoy it. There are other more important things in my life I don't stake my life on how good my tank is. ( Luckily at the moment! :lol: )

But one thing I will say to a new person, above all else, get a good skimmer. Not to say the other stuff is not important because it all is but a good skimmer will last you for life and will be the biggest part of keeping things clean and healthy.

[puttputt]

Waiting for your visit Wasp

[RTBS]

and all those chemicals he doses daily

Reefs correct.

There is too much poor advise from people who know little.

That is why you see numerous marine tanks started and shut down a few months later and sold on trade me etc, full of green algae and sad livestock. Poor advise from know it alls and nasty equipment not doing the job it should

don't get me started on the people that quit, or continually change things because they don't have a nice tank after 3 weeks :evil:

Agreed, when we got into marine we decided it was a long term thing. Time is a big issue for most of us and better equipment may free up some of that time for other things or just to enjoy our tanks.

I would imagine if you wanted too you could run a reef with very little equipment if you had lots of time to maintain it, but I would suspect in the long run would cost about the same, (but cost would be spread out).

[camnbron]

Probably, it's just an issue that to put a range of skimmers and other equipment on the shelf would cost quite a few thousand dollars, and if there is only one new hobbyist starting in the area each few months then the turnover will not justify the expense.

But any marine lfs ought to be happy to order stuff in for you, ( I would hope anyway), if you know what you want.

The only problem here is how does a new hobbiest know what is available?

Its always good when you walk into a shop and they have what you want on the shelf. What would be the point in a shop if the shelves were empty but they could get the stock in for you!?!

The internet is great (if you can access it), especially forums like this where you can ask questions, but looking at pictures and reading stuff only goes so far. I'm a nuts and bolts kind of guy, I like to see what I am buying. If I have to buy over the internet, I will, but my preference is to get it from a local shop.

[wasp]

The only problem here is how does a new hobbiest know what is available?

Its always good when you walk into a shop and they have what you want on the shelf. What would be the point in a shop if the shelves were empty but they could get the stock in for you!?!

Yes good point and it's probably even harder from Whakatane.

The way I would look at this, to someone starting up in a smaller centre with only maybe one not so well stocked shop, would be that starting the hobby means that eventually several thousand dollars will be spent. Therefore, it could be worth contacting a few reefers in some larger but nearest city, and arrange a "tank crawl", to see what they are using & how it works. A day or two spent on that will clarify things, help sort out what is needed, and likely save money long term.

A shop fully stocked with a full range of different brands of skimmers etc would be great, but it is not the economic reality, even in Auckland.

[Warren]

Excellent idea and I would have mentioned it as well if you didn't do it first. Anyone wanting to set up a marine tank should do this. The amount of money and time they need to commit to the project is tiny compared to a day or two doing research missions to other people houses. You'll find too, most reefer's will want to show off their hard work and are very forthcoming with helpful tips.

I remember the best thing I ever saw was the effect of a good skimmer. I remember my first skimmer - an air driven piece of rubbish. When I saw a good one in action I was blown away. My first experience seeing a good one was on a 600L tank - can't remember the model number of the skimmer though. The owner put 3 fingers in the tank and sloshed them round for a couple of seconds. About 20 seconds later the skimmer started foaming like mad for about a minute. It was that quick at removing the fat that ended up in the tank off his hand... My old skimmer never performed like that. Maybe by the next morning there would have been a bit of foam in the cap but not the huge fizz after only 20 secs...

[camnbron]

Yup, its a great idea to go and have a look at other peoples setups. So much easier to understand what things are and how they work when you see it in the flesh.

Thats what is good about what Gannet is doing in the Tauranga area in the marine keeping scene - trying to get people organised enough to have meetings. That way new people can come along have a look at the setup of where ever it is being held and meet the people in person.

[Jammos]

hey sorry to jump in on the end of this talkie. but i had one and found it worked very well as long has you have a light fish load and not the biggest tank.

As long as you have a needle wheel pump that pumps about 2000L/hr your all good.

Your always welcome to give me a buzz if youwant to come around and say hi again an i will help in any way and show you my setup.

Ta

James