Jezza Posted January 7, 2008 Report Share Posted January 7, 2008 Hello to all, my name is Jeremy and I live in Sandringham, Auckland. I've joined the site just for this reptile/amphibians forum... I'm wondering if its alright for me to ask a whole lot of beginner questions from a NZ point of view, (I've looked round the internet, reading some beginner guides and read the first page of threads here, if I'm asking anything thats been answered please point me in the right direction and I'll delete this thread)... I became interested in Terrariums a month or two ago and started wondering what to keep in them... After looking around the internet the general concensus seemed to be Bearded Dragons, are the best to "learn" with..? Are the exo terra terrariums suitable..? Are they any good..? What substrate should I use and is readily available without taking from the enviroment..? Climbing... How high..? On what..? What plants should I use (if any) that are not harmful to Bearded Dragons..? Who should I buy my Dragon from, (I do not want to contribute to harming the species)..? Do any breeder keep genealogy records..? Food... Where can I buy insects from..? Is non red leaf lettuce, insects with reptile powder a suitable diet..? Where can I get the powder..? If suitable, does anyone have experience with lighting in a Exo Terra terrarium for this species..? What works..? Sorry for *wall of questions* but I want to make sure I know what I getting into first and can take the very best care of my acquistion... There seem to be some very knowledge keepers and breeders from what I've read so any input will be greatly appreciated... I also think if I enjoy it as much as I think, I'll move into other species, maybe even more advanced husbandry when experienced... I'd also love to see some other peoples set ups... If that is a "done" thing and you live in Auckland send me a PM... Thank you all again in advance... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broms2 Posted January 7, 2008 Report Share Posted January 7, 2008 hi there welcome to the forum, you've come to the right place , there are heaps of people that can give you good advice on here:D I myself wouldnt call bearded dragons a good "beginner" reptile, also the exo terra terrariums would be out grown pretty quickly, frogs or newts would be more suited to that sort of size. either way i'm sure you'll enjoy whatever you set up :bounce: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jezza Posted January 7, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2008 I myself wouldnt call bearded dragons a good "beginner" reptile, also the exo terra terrariums would be out grown pretty quickly Even the larger sized ones..? Thanks for the welcome, I can tell I'm going to learn a lot... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David R Posted January 7, 2008 Report Share Posted January 7, 2008 Yup, as I recall they're pricey too. Tanks2u made me a 4'x2'x2' glass one with sliding doors for $200. Beardies are dead easy to keep once you know what you're doing, there's plenty of good books on the subject and a lot of it has been covered here so have a read through some old posts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulldogod Posted January 8, 2008 Report Share Posted January 8, 2008 Im only a beginner and people on here with a lot more experience , I can only give you mine. Are the exo terra terrariums suitable..? I thought to small, I got bigger one from start so didnt have to buy another later, 4x2x2 with sliding front doors, $190 What substrate should I use and is readily available without taking from the enviroment..? I used tiles, can use sand, Climbing... How high..? I just have rocks for basking under light What plants should I use (if any) that are not harmful to Bearded Dragons..? I dont have any plants Who should I buy my Dragon from, People on here Food... Where can I buy insects from.. powder for sale on trade me, insects from same or bio supplies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jezza Posted January 8, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2008 Thanks bulldogod... Tiles, as in bathroom tiles..? There's no danger in Beardeds eating the sand..? (I've heard this is bad for them...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaNs Posted January 8, 2008 Report Share Posted January 8, 2008 There's no danger in Beardeds eating the sand..? (I've heard this is bad for them...) Mainly young one's like to eat sand You can also use newpaper/print for young Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulldogod Posted January 9, 2008 Report Share Posted January 9, 2008 yes young ones can eat sand, I didnt want to risk it so used tiles, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExotherMan Posted January 9, 2008 Report Share Posted January 9, 2008 Argh... the dreaded sand debate... *shudder* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
repto Posted January 9, 2008 Report Share Posted January 9, 2008 yeah,like in the wild in a desert they may have acess to the odd grain or two?there could be the argument that some sand is beneficial to their digestion and mineral uptake?By the way in aussie what is their main source of calcium?the food they eat or their environment as for tortoises(limestone deposits etc,where there is no limestone there are no tortoises)anyone care to enlighten me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jezza Posted January 9, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2008 Hello all, Thank you all for the replies, I went to one users house today and had a look at his set ups and have learnt a lot... Bulldogod, interesting terrarium, where did you get the background from..? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonka Posted January 9, 2008 Report Share Posted January 9, 2008 yeah,like in the wild in a desert they may have acess to the odd grain or two?there could be the argument that some sand is beneficial to their digestion and mineral uptake?By the way in aussie what is their main source of calcium?the food they eat or their environment as for tortoises(limestone deposits etc,where there is no limestone there are no tortoises)anyone care to enlighten me? Exactly. If you believe that you have an impactation issue/death from sand , you will more than likely be in the guiness book of nz records as the only person stupid enough to actually believe that sand was or is the reason for the death. I personally use east coast river sand . I find this to be a nice light colour , and very fine , so even if they do eat some , which my dragons tend to do probably every 2nd or 3rd feed , it just passes straight through them. RE live food - bio supplies, local pet store(most expensive), knoxberryfarm.freeservers.com , trade me , or you could even do the.......long pause........ 'old school' catch your own . Please no-one start the 'you shouldnt feed wild caught insects to your dragon' blah blah blah debate. From my experience like most pets/animals , Dragons are pretty straight forward , and the more you stress and fuss over every little thing , the more the chance you will probably end up doing more harm than good. Just follow the basics and you will be fine. (and dont believe everything you read!!!) .remember the story of how man actually landed on the moon . 8) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExotherMan Posted January 10, 2008 Report Share Posted January 10, 2008 I generally agree with Tonka on this, the only instance of impaction i have ever encountered was with someone who came to me with a young (5 wk old) bearded dragon that was kept on...can you believe it... silica sand. Sure it looked good in the enclosure but yikes. I did a pm on it and it wasnt so much that it had 'blocked up' but the fact it simply was everywhere throughout the digestive tract and there was alot of heamorraging. Other than that i have only heard the odd story, mostly just where a lizard has injested quite alot of sand accidentally as it was covering its food etc but still passed it through the faeces. I dont tend to allow baby lizards to go near sand though, as just a small amount can be hard to pass, and they certainly will eat it. I now have my blue-tongues on the red desert sand and have not had any issue, they dont even try eating it and by using a food bowel theres little risk of it being injested with food. Some reptiles just dont suite sand though, I would never use sand with leopard geckos for example. there could be the argument that some sand is beneficial to their digestion and mineral uptake?By the way in aussie what is their main source of calcium?the food they eat or their environment... That comment reminded me of an associate who was doing a study on the thorny devil several years back and whilst he had a number of captive subjects I took the opportunity to go ‘play’ with them . They are a good example of an animal that specialises on feeding on a single prey item. Not supplementary calcium there, interestingly enough though the young do injest their egg casings after birth, obtaining what calcium remains there. So in answer most lizards obtain the majority of their calcium via the food they eat. Particular emphasis on the fact that the quantity of food is often different to what they would be presented in captivity, particularly ratio of calcium/protein etc, as too a better control on the phosphorus intake. A note I thought to mention. Reptiles living in the outback are surrounded by sand, and alot of it. I believe one is even called the 'sandy desert' :lol: Seriously though, what composite makes up the sand you are using is what is important. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulldogod Posted January 10, 2008 Report Share Posted January 10, 2008 arrr, good , that gotem out . The background was thanks to David b. Couldnt find it in the pet shops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExotherMan Posted January 10, 2008 Report Share Posted January 10, 2008 That background does look good, beats the fishtank garbage from the pet shop :roll: Anyway, seen as the sand issue has been brought up :-? Has anyone here actually seen or heard first hand of anyone who has had a serious problem as a result of a lizard eating sand?? I have brought this topic up many times with many people, some very well regarded in their field (whether herpetofauna or veterinary care) and they all say the same thing. They have not seen it themselves but have heard of people saying so. I tend to agree with a few friends over here in Nz that it is probably a mis-diagnosis, perhaps by a reasonably new or inexperienced enthusiast. Can anyone comment on this? It would be great if this could be confirmed once and for all?? Leps though, i have heard of swallowing all sorts of odd things that have required surgical removal. I guessed perhaps being that they are nocturnal maybe it happened while they were trying to catch food that had been given to them during daylight hours?? I know from experience their accuracy during the day can be rather limited. Varanophile, have you anything like this?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingart Posted January 10, 2008 Report Share Posted January 10, 2008 Leps though, i have heard of swallowing all sorts of odd things that have required surgical removal. I guessed perhaps being that they are nocturnal maybe it happened while they were trying to catch food that had been given to them during daylight hours?? I know from experience their accuracy during the day can be rather limited. those big sticky tongues attract all sorts of things never seen sand impaction, except once in very young lizard fed on coarse sand, no bowl - PM confirmed seen grit impaction of gizzard in young birds about 10 times though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExotherMan Posted January 10, 2008 Report Share Posted January 10, 2008 Yea i have no doubt it can cause probs in young lizards, especially hungry little beardies. Anyone seen an example of chronic compaction? (gradual build up over time, usually resulting in death) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varanophile Posted January 10, 2008 Report Share Posted January 10, 2008 I keep leps and beardies on sand or grit and have had no trouble at all with the adults. I don't raise the young on it tho, not thru any bad experiences but because I don't have the guts to risk it yet...only things I have witnessed have trouble with ingesting substrate are jackson's chameleons when they are raised on tea tree. Have never seen a beardy choke on a food item larger than the gap between its eyes either..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jezza Posted January 11, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2008 I went up to Ti Pi today for some inspiration... Where did most of his collection come from..? Imported before 1997..? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
repto Posted January 11, 2008 Report Share Posted January 11, 2008 some were,some are nz bred,some are confiscations from smuggling attemps,some are really old. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jezza Posted January 11, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2008 Ahh, I particularly enjoyed the sand monitor and chameleons (sp)... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broms2 Posted January 11, 2008 Report Share Posted January 11, 2008 I went up to Ti Pi today for some inspiration... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExotherMan Posted January 11, 2008 Report Share Posted January 11, 2008 I went up to Ti Pi today for some inspiration... I was intending on visiting Ivan this sunday, hope the weather is good for it I particularly enjoyed the sand monitor and chameleons Its a shame theres no mate... maybe one day :roll: those chameleons are doing well now though! so thats something to be happy about. Went from 2 pairs to... well quite a few Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulldogod Posted January 11, 2008 Report Share Posted January 11, 2008 This one . Do you work there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jezza Posted January 11, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2008 @broms 2... No sorry I only saw the one alligator... Was that you in the red "Detroit" T-shirt..? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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