pogona1 Posted December 4, 2007 Report Share Posted December 4, 2007 Hey repto, that has kind of been my point. One can only use their own judgement on this matter, or not buy anything at all. As for why no one was prosecuted livingart, someone can only be prosecuted if it can be proven that they smuggled the animals. A very difficult thing to prove. The fall back option is to test for unwanted pathogens and destroy the animals if found. The sad thing about this is that it usually only punishes the animals and the people who bought in good faith. This is why I would like to hear from Kim. The story she sold under seems to be untrue. Even if there was a permit for iguanas issued long ago, the ones sold were proven to be from genetically unrelated stock. How does one explain this? I think apologies need to be made. The statement on her site almost comes across as bragging (after she made a quick buck) and seems a bit insulting to those who were stung. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
repto Posted December 5, 2007 Report Share Posted December 5, 2007 the marineland iguannas,were actually the napier aquarium ones??These were in fact bred at auckland zoo ex taronga zoo in Aussie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingart Posted December 5, 2007 Report Share Posted December 5, 2007 the marineland iguannas,were actually the napier aquarium ones??These were in fact bred at auckland zoo ex taronga zoo in Aussie. clarification on import of iguana repto male died and they imported a replacement this from ERMA Application Number: S2606001 3.15 Based on the import permits issued by MAF the project team notes that only four I. iguana individuals have been lawfully imported into Hawkes Bay Marineland and Aquarium. Three I. iguana were imported under MAF permit 84/z/5, which expired on 8 February 1985 (Appendix 3). A further individual was imported (to replace one that died) under permit 91/z/01, which expired on 25 July 1991 (Appendix 5). hope this helps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
repto Posted December 5, 2007 Report Share Posted December 5, 2007 I stand corrected!Living art`s info is spot on.They were not bred here at all,but at Taronga,sydney. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingart Posted December 5, 2007 Report Share Posted December 5, 2007 found that when researching the ig siezures Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varanophile Posted January 31, 2008 Report Share Posted January 31, 2008 I was involved with the Iguanas and Monitors in the debacle at the end of last year... http://www.nzherald.co.nz/topic/story.c ... d=10415142 It was a bit sad to see them go, they were fantastic reptiles... but as illegally imported animals their fate rested in the hands of MAF were you one of the 'experts' who misidentified the green water dragons as iguanas? both green i suppose.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varanophile Posted January 31, 2008 Report Share Posted January 31, 2008 Quote repto "careful pogona,you are likely to get a fence picket stuck where it will hurt shortly?" Sorry I dont understand. I dont mean to offend anyone, just stating my opinion. The problem we have here is that no-one really knows where any of the animals came from, and the laws dont make it any clearer. Hence my stance - only buy what you can prove has been bred here, and I agree with coelacanth in going with a reputable dealer. I must confess that I only keep beardies and bluetongues, but if something good came up the fit with the above then I would be tempted. As for my statements about Kim, maybe I am being unfair in that I did not buy any iguanas and have never dealt with her. I do however know people who were burnt by the whole affair. This story gets to me because this was someone posing as a reputable dealer, claiming that these were bred from a pair in NZ. DNA tests proved otherwise. If I am offending you with my statements about Kim, I am happy to hear the other side (esp. if what I have heard is wrong). So far there has been no explanations, except for a statement blaming MAF for doing their job. I for one and not afraid to say that the big k is one of the worst people I have ever dealt with. And in my humble opinion MAF are not much better. The iguanas were seized and killed to be 'a disincentive to smugglers' Lets see... 1) iguanas and chinese water dragons that were misidentified as iguanas are dead- they lose. (don't laugh they are both green and have scales) 2) people that paid $4k per animal lose- as does Ti Point reptile park that custom built an enclosure for 3 that were donated- public lose as well as they can not see them 3) kim keeps her coin- WINNER!! 4)Maf gets a great profile in the media for being 'on to it'. we'll just omit the bit about identifying lizards wrong as we can't have them looking stupid- WINNER Bottom line is until....... 1) MAF comes up with a licensing system where animals are recorded and traded with paperwork detailing buyer and seller, supporting that they were captive bred. People are charged a small annual fee for keeping reptiles so that MAF can run the system properly...i.e; people agree that they can be searched at any time by MAF and paperwork checked. No paperwork = not legal = naughty boy. This would mean that we would have to have an amnesty- what is here and what is not. This is not rocket science, i am just stealing an idea the aussies came up with 20 years ago. 2) MAF pays better and employ people with brains. ...then people like the big K will continue to give the hobby a bad name. sorry only just saw this old thread and and dont think it deserves be on page 2 just yet!! Lets get some debates flowing this weekend Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BK Posted January 31, 2008 Report Share Posted January 31, 2008 Most would have been smuggled. NZ biggest bird smuggler also keeps reptiles. Parrot eggs/Reptile eggs. Most Ozzie parrots that are smuggled into NZ aren’t for the NZ market they are to be re exported I would think the same is true for Reptiles. A very old parrot breeder told me that there’s at least one load of egg’s arriving a week into NZ. All that MAF/DOC etc is doing is putting the price up and making a profit for the smugglers, the only ones that lose out are the one's who keep to the rules. If you don't know how prohibition works look at how the Mafia got started in the states or how the gangs make heaps out of weed. Never going to work. The chance is that if if hasn't been smuggle the parents would've. If you’ve got enough cash I’m sure you could buy a snake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BK Posted February 1, 2008 Report Share Posted February 1, 2008 Should read,†look how the Mafia got started in the states" Oh as a side note the smuggler also brings in young Asian women as will. Such a nice guy and he likes hunting. What an animal lover. This issue really pisses me of not being able to legally import animals. There is just no reason to the rules. How come chicken eggs can be imported but not parrot eggs??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BK Posted February 1, 2008 Report Share Posted February 1, 2008 I don't now why but I keep on losing the ia of the end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coelacanth Posted February 1, 2008 Report Share Posted February 1, 2008 MAFIA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coelacanth Posted February 1, 2008 Report Share Posted February 1, 2008 same -- that's so wierd! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broms2 Posted February 1, 2008 Report Share Posted February 1, 2008 1) MAF comes up with a licensing system where animals are recorded and traded with paperwork detailing buyer and seller, supporting that they were captive bred. People are charged a small annual fee for keeping reptiles so that MAF can run the system properly...i.e; people agree that they can be searched at any time by MAF and paperwork checked. No paperwork = not legal = naughty boy. This would mean that we would have to have an amnesty- what is here and what is not. This is not rocket science, i am just stealing an idea the aussies came up with 20 years ago. completely agree but how do we get the ball rolling....... - amnesty - maf find out what is here - permits - limit keepers and keep records - extra money for maf you will allways get the people that do things illegally but it would be a start. possibly open things up with natives as well like in Australia, still have permits but make it so you can buy and sell within Nz, suddenly you will find skinks and geckos that are currently in danger being breed in much greater numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slevin12 Posted February 1, 2008 Report Share Posted February 1, 2008 i rekon they should let tortoises be imported Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OscarBoy Posted February 1, 2008 Report Share Posted February 1, 2008 lol they should Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varanophile Posted February 4, 2008 Report Share Posted February 4, 2008 i rekon they should let tortoises be imported and crocodilians...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broms2 Posted February 4, 2008 Report Share Posted February 4, 2008 and crocodilians...... hmmmm maybe not Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott16 Posted February 4, 2008 Report Share Posted February 4, 2008 y not it would be cool as to have a little croc in the backyard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broms2 Posted February 4, 2008 Report Share Posted February 4, 2008 Is anyone keen on actually looking at this seriously? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott16 Posted February 4, 2008 Report Share Posted February 4, 2008 lots of people want it to happen but i dont think anyone has the time cause from what ive read from some posts it takes alot of time and effort Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingart Posted February 4, 2008 Report Share Posted February 4, 2008 y not it would be cool as to have a little croc in the backyard YEA right you have obviously never lived where the little crocs play when they are grownup Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott16 Posted February 4, 2008 Report Share Posted February 4, 2008 true i guess we would end up with alot in our water ways cause people will buy them and when they get to big relese them in a river which would cause alot of problems Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broms2 Posted February 4, 2008 Report Share Posted February 4, 2008 you have obviously never lived where the little crocs play when they are grownup lol I was going to say i don't know of any little crocs cute when young, biggggggggggggg when older Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varanophile Posted February 4, 2008 Report Share Posted February 4, 2008 Is anyone keen on actually looking at this seriously? I am going to try to get my own system running for what I sell, but most people will not be too keen on supplying address details if they are buying expensive reptiles.....open to other suggestions on a licensing system..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BK Posted February 5, 2008 Report Share Posted February 5, 2008 Unless you have someone in DOC/MAF nothing will happen. They make the rules you follow them and they wont ask for your input and if they do they wont take any notice. Have a look at the Red crown Kakariki. Close to being extinct in the south island. There are breeders who are keen on breeding these and releasing them but don't DOC aren’t interested. I've been asking for the form to apply for a permit but they just won't send me them, there will come a time when they are in the same position as the Orange Fronts but DOC don't want to have any thing to do with private breeders. Just goes to show what you are up against. There was a croc at the North New Brighton Zoo, this was a long time ago so don’t now what happened to it. The owner of the Zoo imported heaps of different animals from Reptiles to big cats. No permit required as there was no requirements to do so. Where are these now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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