Jump to content

Miniture Jags ???


snookie

Recommended Posts

It has been raised and debated on here before the last time the same person was selling them.. The verdict was that dwarf ones doesn't exist.. :) Maybe the seller thinks they can sell them easier if people believe they wont grow to 30cm's and kill everything in the tank..

EDIT sorry to everyone they DON'T exist guess I should use that preview button before I post lol :oops:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Anonymous

Hmmmm, never heard of small Jag's, stunted due to growing in to small a tank, big possiblity, :-?

But you ask this guy for there scientific name or anything and he gets all shitty and won;t tell you

I wouldn't touch them, untill there is real proff as to what they are

sent the link to freinds overseas who are right into jags and other chiclids and they said never heard of them and they can;t find anything either

big porky he is telling i recon

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nice cichla to shadox.

Any chance someone can pm the people that run the show, this is a misleading sale. There is no such thing & when asked he wouldn't answer. Give them this link,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parachromis_managuense

Another thing is what is he doing selling them at 1 1/2 weeks old. Thats a no no here, fish have to be 3cm. What a rip off. Feel like joining just to give people ....

Frenchy :D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sounds very dodgy especially if he cant or wont give a scientific name

If they're only a dwarf form then their latin name will still be the same. It could be that somewhere in central america their is a reigonal form of P. managuense that only grows to a smaller size because of different conditions, but if there is I've never heard of it, and I highly doubt he's got some.

As for the male staying smaller than the female!? :S

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Maybe the seller thinks they can sell them easier if people believe they wont grow to 30cm's and kill everything in the tank..

They shouldn't do that anyway. If you know what you're doing and have the right sized tank they should grow to 40cm [males] and co-exist with their similar-sized tankmates. :wink: :lol:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Your right, jags aren't that bad. He is selling them that way to mask it. It is misleading.

If the fish was a dwarf form David, it will still have its own variant name or separate species name. It would be classified, or labelled as yet to be varified, classified.

There are dwarf, shell dwelling versions of cichlid species.

eg; Altolamprologus compressiceps have 2 dwarf variants off the top of my head.

They are A.compressiceps"mbita pearl" & A.compressiceps "sumbu"

Frenchy :D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The latin/scientific part of the name will be the same. If it is a variety (eg dwarf form from a selected reigon, as opposed to a valid subspecies) then it should be written as Altolamprologus compressiceps 'Mbita Pearl', with single quotations around the english/non-latin words. The single quote marks around the Mbita Pearl are what signifies a selected variety, instead of a valid subspecies, which would be latin-ised (with an i or ae etc on the end) and written after the species name in lower case.

AFAIK forms/varieties etc have don't have to be accepted/classified as such, unless you were trying to name it as a valid subspecies. Anyone could go to Lake Tanganyika and catch some Fronts from a certain point on the lake, and call them C. frontosa 'Rocky Point'.

I'll double-check this with my boss tomorrow as he's far more clued up with latin than I am....

:lol:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Come on David, you know it is a bit more complicated than that.

The point I meant above was, if a dwarf variant existed it would still be classified as something.

It would either have a variant name. Or its own species name if there were enough differences to the the original species.

As for latin, it isn't true latin anyway. :P

Frenchy :D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The point I meant above was, if a dwarf variant existed it would still be classified as something.

It would either have a variant name. Or its own species name if there were enough differences to the the original species.

Not necessarily. It may be that no one has ever bothered naming them, or even considered it as a 'dwarf form' (instead of just runts) because people who keep those kind of fish would usually prefer larger growing ones, and consider smaller ones inferior. If you went collecting large cichlids in central america would you keep the biggest ones you found, or the smaller ones?

Regardless, I think he's full of sh!t and the fish are just stunted. He could have selectively bred them, but I doubt he's grown out a hundred jags to adult size, and picked the smallest ones to breed from, then done it again, and again.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

but I doubt he's grown out a hundred jags to adult size, and picked the smallest ones to breed from, then done it again, and again.

we breed miniature highland cows, kune kune pigs and bantams, it has taken over 12 years of selective breeding to achieve homozygous animals so we can guarantee animals are indeed miniature

breeding a runt to a runt does not achieve this only producing probably inferior animals and some large ones in amongst them

until he has reared these jags to mature age as you have all rightly stated the poos are indeed flowing

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not necessarily. It may be that no one has ever bothered naming them, or even considered it as a 'dwarf form' (instead of just runts) because people who keep those kind of fish would usually prefer larger growing ones, and consider smaller ones inferior. If you went collecting large cichlids in central america would you keep the biggest ones you found, or the smaller ones?

:roll: :lol:

Frenchy :D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Plus I doubt it would show up in NZ first either

just a few thoughts

nz a smaller country

smaller population

smaller number of serious fish breeders

smaller number of fish brought in

smaller gene pool to work with, some species only come in in one shipment ?

more chance of inbreeding ?

more chance of sports or mutations occuring ?

mutations of nz kakariki are being bred overseas for a few years now whereas in nz have only occured a few times, pieds and yellows

your thoughts ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You bring up good points Mark...

Over here, there has been stuff all American imports for donkeys years. They aren't the vogue anymore. Therefore those that are smuggled in tend to be Africans, or something new.

A lot of the bigger species aren't as good as they used to be. I am constantly told by old school American keepers, "20 years ago, they used to look like this, more colour...."

Point being, I would say no new Jags have come into Aussie for at least 10-15 years. Thats a guess, I don't know how long they have been here, no new ones in for the last 10 years at least. No such thing as a dwarf here.

When I think about it, I have not seen a dwarf oscar, cichla, synspilium, festae, severum, black belt, red devil, dovii etc.On forums, in shops, peoples tanks.... Deformed & stunted yes.... especially the poor Oscars.

Frenchy :D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

well I have posted it on another forum that is world wide all the people into monster fish and I am looking forward to hearing what they say because I think it is not all on the up, NZ being the first in the world to discover something like this would be cool but highly unlikely especially after reading all of the great discusion on the subject.

Who knows it may be true but why the avoidence by the seller of these guys when questioned on particular info it just doesnt add up.

Plus who wouldnt want a 30cm agro monster crusing their tank, thats what we are going for anyway, they are so very cool, I love our jags. They develop new ways of showing you they are bigger than you every day, their latest was trying to eat the camera when I was taking pics of their bubs, they forgot their was a tank wall between them and the camera LOL, they are just so mad!

I think the main thing is why try to fix something that isnt broke, jags are cool just the way they are!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I know this guy, when I was still in NZ, I bought a pair of Jag from him, he said they are siblings of his breeding Jags and he only want a pair. He keeps the pair in 6x2x2 so I know they are not stunted but I am sure he told me they are only 2 years old during that time. So my conclusion is they are not miniatures, they are just young breeding pair. The guy I must say knows no more than to breed fish, he's got an 8 footer with 4 full grown Oscar, 4 full grown gibbiceps and 4 half grown Pacu, several convicts and a Gold fish in it, so thats give you an idea. Just my 2cents.

Agap

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...