snookie Posted September 2, 2007 Report Share Posted September 2, 2007 http://www.trademe.co.nz/Home-living/Pe ... 078106.htm :-? ????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A.PROPHECY Posted September 2, 2007 Report Share Posted September 2, 2007 i dont belive it lol unless there stunted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanjury Posted September 2, 2007 Report Share Posted September 2, 2007 It has been raised and debated on here before the last time the same person was selling them.. The verdict was that dwarf ones doesn't exist.. Maybe the seller thinks they can sell them easier if people believe they wont grow to 30cm's and kill everything in the tank.. EDIT sorry to everyone they DON'T exist guess I should use that preview button before I post lol :oops: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herefishiefishie Posted September 2, 2007 Report Share Posted September 2, 2007 Is there really a dwarf version. I have never seen one or heard of that before. :-? Got a link Ryan? Chances are in this case, the guy is telling prokies, or if they stay small, stunted or hybrid. Frenchy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted September 2, 2007 Report Share Posted September 2, 2007 Hmmmm, never heard of small Jag's, stunted due to growing in to small a tank, big possiblity, :-? But you ask this guy for there scientific name or anything and he gets all shitty and won;t tell you I wouldn't touch them, untill there is real proff as to what they are sent the link to freinds overseas who are right into jags and other chiclids and they said never heard of them and they can;t find anything either big porky he is telling i recon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freakyfish Posted September 2, 2007 Report Share Posted September 2, 2007 I havent heard about them b4 either Sounds very dodgy especially if he cant or wont give a scientific name Brad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herefishiefishie Posted September 2, 2007 Report Share Posted September 2, 2007 Nice cichla to shadox. Any chance someone can pm the people that run the show, this is a misleading sale. There is no such thing & when asked he wouldn't answer. Give them this link, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parachromis_managuense Another thing is what is he doing selling them at 1 1/2 weeks old. Thats a no no here, fish have to be 3cm. What a rip off. Feel like joining just to give people .... Frenchy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David R Posted September 2, 2007 Report Share Posted September 2, 2007 Sounds very dodgy especially if he cant or wont give a scientific name If they're only a dwarf form then their latin name will still be the same. It could be that somewhere in central america their is a reigonal form of P. managuense that only grows to a smaller size because of different conditions, but if there is I've never heard of it, and I highly doubt he's got some. As for the male staying smaller than the female!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanjury Posted September 3, 2007 Report Share Posted September 3, 2007 Everyone should note I edit my comment I meant to say the conclusion was they dont exist lol sorry about that.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David R Posted September 3, 2007 Report Share Posted September 3, 2007 Maybe the seller thinks they can sell them easier if people believe they wont grow to 30cm's and kill everything in the tank.. They shouldn't do that anyway. If you know what you're doing and have the right sized tank they should grow to 40cm [males] and co-exist with their similar-sized tankmates. :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanjury Posted September 3, 2007 Report Share Posted September 3, 2007 We realise that but they may think people will buy them for community tanks if they think they are a smaller less aggressive fish.. Unsure that was purely speculation.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herefishiefishie Posted September 3, 2007 Report Share Posted September 3, 2007 Your right, jags aren't that bad. He is selling them that way to mask it. It is misleading. If the fish was a dwarf form David, it will still have its own variant name or separate species name. It would be classified, or labelled as yet to be varified, classified. There are dwarf, shell dwelling versions of cichlid species. eg; Altolamprologus compressiceps have 2 dwarf variants off the top of my head. They are A.compressiceps"mbita pearl" & A.compressiceps "sumbu" Frenchy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David R Posted September 3, 2007 Report Share Posted September 3, 2007 The latin/scientific part of the name will be the same. If it is a variety (eg dwarf form from a selected reigon, as opposed to a valid subspecies) then it should be written as Altolamprologus compressiceps 'Mbita Pearl', with single quotations around the english/non-latin words. The single quote marks around the Mbita Pearl are what signifies a selected variety, instead of a valid subspecies, which would be latin-ised (with an i or ae etc on the end) and written after the species name in lower case. AFAIK forms/varieties etc have don't have to be accepted/classified as such, unless you were trying to name it as a valid subspecies. Anyone could go to Lake Tanganyika and catch some Fronts from a certain point on the lake, and call them C. frontosa 'Rocky Point'. I'll double-check this with my boss tomorrow as he's far more clued up with latin than I am.... :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herefishiefishie Posted September 3, 2007 Report Share Posted September 3, 2007 Come on David, you know it is a bit more complicated than that. The point I meant above was, if a dwarf variant existed it would still be classified as something. It would either have a variant name. Or its own species name if there were enough differences to the the original species. As for latin, it isn't true latin anyway. Frenchy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David R Posted September 4, 2007 Report Share Posted September 4, 2007 The point I meant above was, if a dwarf variant existed it would still be classified as something. It would either have a variant name. Or its own species name if there were enough differences to the the original species. Not necessarily. It may be that no one has ever bothered naming them, or even considered it as a 'dwarf form' (instead of just runts) because people who keep those kind of fish would usually prefer larger growing ones, and consider smaller ones inferior. If you went collecting large cichlids in central america would you keep the biggest ones you found, or the smaller ones? Regardless, I think he's full of sh!t and the fish are just stunted. He could have selectively bred them, but I doubt he's grown out a hundred jags to adult size, and picked the smallest ones to breed from, then done it again, and again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingart Posted September 4, 2007 Report Share Posted September 4, 2007 but I doubt he's grown out a hundred jags to adult size, and picked the smallest ones to breed from, then done it again, and again. we breed miniature highland cows, kune kune pigs and bantams, it has taken over 12 years of selective breeding to achieve homozygous animals so we can guarantee animals are indeed miniature breeding a runt to a runt does not achieve this only producing probably inferior animals and some large ones in amongst them until he has reared these jags to mature age as you have all rightly stated the poos are indeed flowing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herefishiefishie Posted September 4, 2007 Report Share Posted September 4, 2007 Not necessarily. It may be that no one has ever bothered naming them, or even considered it as a 'dwarf form' (instead of just runts) because people who keep those kind of fish would usually prefer larger growing ones, and consider smaller ones inferior. If you went collecting large cichlids in central america would you keep the biggest ones you found, or the smaller ones? :roll: :lol: Frenchy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freakyfish Posted September 4, 2007 Report Share Posted September 4, 2007 I think it would depend on what ya after there David I know when im buying fish I dont want to buy the bigger ones all the time Plus if it is a true dwarf species I think it would have it owns name Plus I doubt it would show up in NZ first either Brad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingart Posted September 4, 2007 Report Share Posted September 4, 2007 Plus I doubt it would show up in NZ first either just a few thoughts nz a smaller country smaller population smaller number of serious fish breeders smaller number of fish brought in smaller gene pool to work with, some species only come in in one shipment ? more chance of inbreeding ? more chance of sports or mutations occuring ? mutations of nz kakariki are being bred overseas for a few years now whereas in nz have only occured a few times, pieds and yellows your thoughts ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herefishiefishie Posted September 4, 2007 Report Share Posted September 4, 2007 You bring up good points Mark... Over here, there has been stuff all American imports for donkeys years. They aren't the vogue anymore. Therefore those that are smuggled in tend to be Africans, or something new. A lot of the bigger species aren't as good as they used to be. I am constantly told by old school American keepers, "20 years ago, they used to look like this, more colour...." Point being, I would say no new Jags have come into Aussie for at least 10-15 years. Thats a guess, I don't know how long they have been here, no new ones in for the last 10 years at least. No such thing as a dwarf here. When I think about it, I have not seen a dwarf oscar, cichla, synspilium, festae, severum, black belt, red devil, dovii etc.On forums, in shops, peoples tanks.... Deformed & stunted yes.... especially the poor Oscars. Frenchy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tropheus Posted September 5, 2007 Report Share Posted September 5, 2007 Really should get a couple of breeding pairs of jags so I can feed my Africans the fry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David R Posted September 5, 2007 Report Share Posted September 5, 2007 or feed the africans to the jags :lol: It could be interesting if some of the fry escape and end up surviving... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herefishiefishie Posted September 5, 2007 Report Share Posted September 5, 2007 I used to do that with convict fry. Problem was once a month I had to take the tank apart to catch out the survivors. :roll: :lol: Frenchy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diffgirl Posted October 11, 2007 Report Share Posted October 11, 2007 well I have posted it on another forum that is world wide all the people into monster fish and I am looking forward to hearing what they say because I think it is not all on the up, NZ being the first in the world to discover something like this would be cool but highly unlikely especially after reading all of the great discusion on the subject. Who knows it may be true but why the avoidence by the seller of these guys when questioned on particular info it just doesnt add up. Plus who wouldnt want a 30cm agro monster crusing their tank, thats what we are going for anyway, they are so very cool, I love our jags. They develop new ways of showing you they are bigger than you every day, their latest was trying to eat the camera when I was taking pics of their bubs, they forgot their was a tank wall between them and the camera LOL, they are just so mad! I think the main thing is why try to fix something that isnt broke, jags are cool just the way they are!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishman Posted October 12, 2007 Report Share Posted October 12, 2007 I know this guy, when I was still in NZ, I bought a pair of Jag from him, he said they are siblings of his breeding Jags and he only want a pair. He keeps the pair in 6x2x2 so I know they are not stunted but I am sure he told me they are only 2 years old during that time. So my conclusion is they are not miniatures, they are just young breeding pair. The guy I must say knows no more than to breed fish, he's got an 8 footer with 4 full grown Oscar, 4 full grown gibbiceps and 4 half grown Pacu, several convicts and a Gold fish in it, so thats give you an idea. Just my 2cents. Agap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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