sharn Posted February 1, 2007 Report Share Posted February 1, 2007 hey all, sadly the day came where i experienced my first tank leak. went to clean the discus tank this morning and found the front middle leg on my 360L oscar tank was wet. i ripped off the front cover bit (its not a fancy stand) and found 3 small leaks that were putting out a drip or two a minute each. i put some silicon on the inside (read on here to do that for small leaks) but that didnt help. i have moved the 360L out into the garage and it will get a reseal and i will water test it. SOOOO... now i have my spare 460L inside (which mother said was just taking up space in the garage and id never use it) and have all occupants of the 360L in it along with gravel, filters etc. its only half full at present. mum reckons the 460L looks way better than my 360L and sort of hinted shed like that better she doesnt want too much extra weight on the floor. no extra weight has been added to the 460L (no extra gravel, the stand weighs less) but the tank itself is heavier and it holds more water. my question is: will my 460L put more pressure (in a bad way) per square foot than my 360L? the 360L stand has six legs, each corner and one at the middle back/front. they are rougly 2"x2". my stand for the 460L is basically a big rectangle (no legs) with a middle piece. to me this would mean that the 460L tank weight is spread more evenly than the 360L therefore making it less harsh on the floor? the tank sits across the beams. does it matter that i have other tanks in my room (none on the same wall as this one though)? my mum is super paranoid about me ruining the house with the floor sagging from the weight so i thought i should consult experts on the topic :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidb Posted February 1, 2007 Report Share Posted February 1, 2007 should be better on the floor than the smaller tank if anything IMO. If It is over at least 2 beams it won't cause a sag in the floor and the surface area of the bigger tank sounds like it is waaay bigger so you won't be creating pressure points Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharn Posted February 1, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2007 thanks david i shall enlist the help of my little sister (ok, so ill pay her and bribe her with lollies or something) to check the beams out tomorrow :lol: the 360L is (this is from memory) 142 long, 48 wide and roughly 52 high. the 460L is 130cm long, 60 wide and 60 tall so thats 984 sqr cm diff approx if thats any help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpidersWeb Posted February 1, 2007 Report Share Posted February 1, 2007 Say it weights in at 500Kg, divide by 4 and thats 125kg per point on a 4 legged stand. Lets say you have 4 mates who weigh 100Kg, and their 60kg girlfriends jump in to their arms, thats 4 pressure points of 160kg. Much more weight than your tank setup. If my floor collapsed because some girl jumps in to her boyfriends arms, I'd be pissed! Friend of mine is 125kg, he walks around no problems to floors He can hop around on one foot too. You'll find the building codes require a very high weight threshold. Something rediculous like 800kg/m2 (cant remember off top of my head). A 460L tank should not cause any problem at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpidersWeb Posted February 1, 2007 Report Share Posted February 1, 2007 Found this in another thread too I have about 1000kg on my floor now, that was built in 1846 (yes 18 ). Dont worry about it. The way I think about it 600kg = 6 largish guys, if you had a party would you even think about 6 guys and there girlfriends dancing, jumping up and down next to each other on your floor?? couse not, the building codes rates floors and something like 800kg per square meter. And lastly has any one ever heard of a tank actually going through a floor?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted February 1, 2007 Report Share Posted February 1, 2007 The problem for the floor is caused by the head of water (the height of the tank) and the way that weight is distributed. If you have 6 legs of 1 inch square box section all the weight is going down onto 6 sq inches (which is a lot). I get around the problem by building the stand with a platform on the bottom as well as the top and this makes sure the weight is distributed as well as it can be. A decent sized goldfish bowl would probably produce more weight than the design floor load for a domestic dwelling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpidersWeb Posted February 1, 2007 Report Share Posted February 1, 2007 Have to disagree a wee bit, head of the water has no effect on the floor at all, water has the same weight at ground level as it does 1m high, the height of a tank does not increase the force/pressure downwards. Spreading the load is a good idea tho, but often you'll find that the floor itself is capable of distributing the weight across the beams anywho, unless its cork tile or chip board or something cheap. sharn said her stand has a flat base rather than legs, so that should be primo. I've got a steel stand here holding ~400kg (350L + decorations) which is made out of hollow steel, it has no feet at all just the steel hitting the ground, no problem at all. Under our 650L + 450L tank setup we do have a platform tho to help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim r Posted February 1, 2007 Report Share Posted February 1, 2007 Sharn have you checked which way the floor joists run ? As you have 460kg of water plus weight of tank plus weight of stand plus weight of people I am thinking it would be better to span as many joists as possible even if just for peace of mind. If tank is downstairs you could also get someone to pack underneath the house where the tank stands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Posted February 1, 2007 Report Share Posted February 1, 2007 Have to disagree a wee bit, head of the water has no effect on the floor at all, water has the same weight at ground level as it does 1m high, the height of a tank does not increase the force/pressure downwards. I think by "head of water" he means "how deep the tank is". A deeper (taller) tank will exert more force on the same m² if the tank footprint is the same. In this case, the tank is not only taller and heavier, it has a smaller footprint. There will be more force per m². However, as it seems to be better distributed on the floor, the pressure will be lower at the point the stand meets the floor. Overall though, the supporting joists will have a higher load. It should be ok however. If the tank is pushed hard up against the outside wall of the house then the ring foundation (if it has one) will support the back edge of the tank very well. Then the joists are effectively only supporting half the weight of the tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Posted February 1, 2007 Report Share Posted February 1, 2007 Go for it Sharn, but remember we have quakes here and maybe you should consider fastening your stand to the wall of the house. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted February 1, 2007 Report Share Posted February 1, 2007 Thankyou Warren for clarifying. I spoke to a retired building inspector who told me that it would not matter if there was a ring foundation or not as the bearers would still be suppoting the joists if it was on piles and your suggestion of putting it by the external wall was a good one. Sorry about the terminology--" head of water"-- I must have also spoken to a retired plumbing inspector. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharn Posted February 4, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2007 i havent got under the house and my mother and sister refuse to also but we had a look with a torch and it looks like i would have two big beams under the tank. the tank is on an outside wall and the house is on piles. if the house ends up sinking on that side in winter cause the foundations are wet i have to fork out for it or any other damage that occurs from that tank being there so i need to be 100% sure that it will not cause the house to die :lol: is it best that i get a builder or whatever around to give it a once over? also will it be a problem with the four tanks in my room. i have my bed and the largest tank (360L/460L) on the outside wall, a 140L on my dressing table on the very inside wall, a 220L on the inside wall, and my 170L (not full, got axies in it) runs along one end wall. thats alot of weight in one area of the house :-? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpidersWeb Posted February 4, 2007 Report Share Posted February 4, 2007 In our dining room we have 200L x 2, 150L and 650L, and will soon be adding our 450L. As for weight in a small area, our 650 and 450 tanks are on the same stand, so thats over a tonne when setup. 460kg isn't much weight, thats like 4 fat people hanging out. I think you're worrying way too much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharn Posted February 4, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2007 460kg isn't much weight, thats like 4 fat people hanging out. :lol: its not so much me worrying (id be worrying if it did something to the floor) but my mothers peace of mind. its her house and houses cost alot and itd suck for me to half ruin a bit of it. what type of house/foor do you have SW? is it concrete or on piles? our house is around 25 years old (the older part, which is what my room is in) and im not sure what the floor is made out of. if i can talk the bf/grandfather/neighbour into going under and packing the floor a bit will that basically rule out any risks? it seems like that would be the easiest option... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpidersWeb Posted February 5, 2007 Report Share Posted February 5, 2007 Ours is all wood. Was built in the 1970's. A 460L tank will not harm the house (due to weight) assuming you put it in a sensible location. The biggest thing is making sure the weight is spread out, which it is in your case, and thats just to protect the carpet/tile from being ruined. To help with her peace of mind you can give your insurer a call, I'd say if your aquarium's weight damaged the house, it'd be covered. Helen works for an insurance company, and you'd be amazed at what they out for Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharn Posted February 5, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 5, 2007 well i think an outside wall across at least two beams is about the most sensible place i could put it in our house so thats encouraging ill get her to give the insurance guys a bell and i will attempt to find someone to pack a few bits of timber under the house for abit more peace of mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted February 5, 2007 Report Share Posted February 5, 2007 I think the most important thing is to make the tank stand into a platform so the weight is better distributed. I have a ring around the base as well as the top and customwood top and bottom so the weight is distributed over the whole area rather than down through 4 or 6 leggs. That way it is less inclined to punch down through the floor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Posted February 5, 2007 Report Share Posted February 5, 2007 My big tank weighs about 2500kg. Before I moved to a concrete floor house I was in a house with a wooden floor and piles. I set new piles into the ground under the corners and center of the tank. I dug a hole where each pile was to go 300mm deep and 600mm square. I set the pile into the concrete poured into the hole while it was sit wet. It was about 100mm short of reaching the floor so I made M25 threaded adjustable jacks to sit on top of each pile. The jacks could then be adjusted as required to help level the tank. It also meant if the piles settled I could adjust for it. They never moved however. Even though it's a bit of work, it would be good insurance to set new piles under the tank. You'll get really good peace of mind from it as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharn Posted February 5, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 5, 2007 i dont think i will be able to get anyone to do that for me and i dont have the funds to pay for a pro to do it as im only a student. if i have to put piles in then i will just set up the 360L again as its more hassle than its worth for me (the fish dont need a bigger tank and would only be getting upgraded because its a larger spare). apparently our floor is made of particle board. is that a problem? im not sure how thick it is but i dont have any squishy parts where the 360L was if i chuck a big slab of wood (any particular sort?) under the stand so that its not just a rectangle of support around the outside but a whole platform as alan suggests will i still need to pack under the floor? im all for peace of mind :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilknieval69 Posted February 5, 2007 Report Share Posted February 5, 2007 Nah it will be sweet as Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharn Posted February 5, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 5, 2007 ya gonna help me fix it if things go belly up? :lol: you can deal with the angry mother too :lol: heres a pic of the stand, you can see the outside rectangle and it has a beam running thru the middle that touches the floor also so the tank has two unsupported squares either side. mums said i can set it up already after reading this but she said she would appreciate me taking any extra precautions if i need to 'just incase' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpidersWeb Posted February 5, 2007 Report Share Posted February 5, 2007 A 460L tank will not cause damage to the house!!!!!! Honestly you are worrying over nothing. You'll notice Warren was talking about a tank that was 2500L, thats over 2 and a half tonnes of water, now THAT would need piles! ~500kg isnt anything to worry over, especially when its distributed over a large area of flooring. Distributed like that especially, that is safer than having 4 fat people at a party, and I've never had a friend damage my flooring. Good luck and ENJOY your new 460 litre tank! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron-Betta Posted February 10, 2007 Report Share Posted February 10, 2007 on the topic of weight distribution in the house, My partner and i have come across a predicament in our rental home. Half the house is solidly on land and the other half extends out on stilts. (short half extends out and the long half is sorta dug into the hill We had our fishroom in the room that was on stilts. The house was only built in 96 and is made of new materials. After 4 months of living there we started to notice cracks in the walls and such, things like the window in that room was twisted enough not to open easily and doors wouldn't close. We didnt think that the weight of the tank were too much for that room as at the time we ony had around 5 tanks measuring 26x26x46 (cm's) The tanks were placed in "structually strong" places in the room. The tanks only had around 20-25 liters of water in each so at max they would weigh around 125kg at the most plus around 50kg in the stands. We haven't found out yet wether it was poor products used in the building or what, but we have since moved all the tanks to a room on land. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Posted February 10, 2007 Report Share Posted February 10, 2007 Sounds more like the engineering on the stilts/land was done very poorly. The weight of tanks you suggest is insignificant compared to the weight of the house on the stilts. Either the land has moved or the stilts were not sunk deep enough to find a solid enough surface to put the weight on. Someone has stuffed up... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Posted February 10, 2007 Report Share Posted February 10, 2007 As an chippy, I'd agree with Warren but another alternative is that the hill has started to move. That house would have been built about the "leaky-house Syndrome" time were being built, and we know how much checking was being done then, don't we?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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