Whiskas Posted January 24, 2007 Report Share Posted January 24, 2007 is there a rule for how much ph up, or down, per litre will change the ph and by how much? And how long till you know the ph has gone up, or down, as far as it is going to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caryl Posted January 24, 2007 Report Share Posted January 24, 2007 Don't use the stuff. It is only temporary depending on the buffering in the tank and will more likely result in huge pH swings. Why do you want to alter the pH? What is it, and what do you want it to be? There are more natural and longer lasting ways than those products. Besides, read the label. I think pH Up is just an expensive way of buying baking soda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpidersWeb Posted January 24, 2007 Report Share Posted January 24, 2007 Don't use pH up or down. They are temporary measures, and the constant pH swings in your tank will cause much more harm. If your pH is between 6.5 and 7.5 then there is normally no reason for adjusting it (unless you keep African Cichlids, in which case 8ish is better). Sometimes breeding discus etc like the softer water, which can be made using reverse osmosis, collecting rainwater, or a little bit of peat in the filter. For most cases, its best just to get your fish used to your tap water, so there is no stress during water changes and you're not reliant on buying bottles of chemicals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted January 24, 2007 Report Share Posted January 24, 2007 Most fish will tolerate a range of hardness and pH provided the changes are slow. Give the bottle to your mother in law. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southerrrngirrl Posted January 24, 2007 Report Share Posted January 24, 2007 Yeah I agree with what the others said. I used to use Proper PH 7.0 when I got my first tank (cos the LFS told me to, and I didn't know any better) and I couldn't work out why my fish were ALWAYS dying. Now that I'm a little more educated, I don't use ph altering products and haven't had a fish death for.. probably nearly a year. *touches wood* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whiskas Posted January 24, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2007 thanx for that. Yeah i was told that i needed it by my lfs too but now i guess i know better Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Posted January 24, 2007 Report Share Posted January 24, 2007 Give the bottle to your mother in law. Ooh, nasty !! 8) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Posted January 24, 2007 Report Share Posted January 24, 2007 Yeah I agree with what the others said. I used to use Proper PH 7.0 when I got my first tank (cos the LFS told me to, and I didn't know any better) and I couldn't work out why my fish were ALWAYS dying. Now that I'm a little more educated, I don't use ph altering products and haven't had a fish death for.. probably nearly a year. *touches wood* Watch out for many of these pH buffers. Most of them are phosphate based. Using them will inhibit plant growth and can lead to massive algae outbreaks. Normally the phosphate level is so high algae cannot break out but as the buffering capacity drops it can happen. I used it once a long long time ago before I was better educated. Out of interest, I measured the phosphate level and it was 400ppm. I had to dilute it 100:1 before my test kit would read a sensible value... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southerrrngirrl Posted January 25, 2007 Report Share Posted January 25, 2007 Ohh.. that may also explain why my plants didn't grow so well back then. That and a combination of just shoving the bunch in to the gravel... I have an algae problem at the moment... so high phosphates can also cause algae breakouts?? Should I be testing for phosphates too?? The buffering capacity relates to the water hardness doesn't it? I believe my water is really soft so.. what does that mean? Ugh so much to learn!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharn Posted January 25, 2007 Report Share Posted January 25, 2007 KH is carbonate hardness and thats what keeps your ph stable, generally (but not always, there is exceptions) a low KH will go hand in hand with a low Ph and vice versa. with a low KH you may experience Ph crashes or swings as there is very little to keep your Ph stable. General hardness (GH) is well.. just your general hardness of the water, i dont think that it has any effect on the stability of parameters though but im not 100% on that. our water is soft, we have 0 Dkh and a ph of 6.6-6.8 so i keep shell grit in most of my filters to get the Kh up above 3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southerrrngirrl Posted January 25, 2007 Report Share Posted January 25, 2007 I have the test kit for the kh & gh, it didn't take many drops of the solution to make the water change, which means its soft right?, my ph is probably 7.0+ though.. I guess my water is the exception then? I haven't experienced any crashes or swings.. not since we moved anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted January 25, 2007 Report Share Posted January 25, 2007 Us old fellas are having trouble again. In the good old days------ hardness was in ppm expressed as CaCo3 or in DH which was a German expression and 1 DH was about 18ppm hardness. What happened to the expression that hardness was what stopped the soap from lathering and was measured by a titration against a standard soap solution. We never had this trouble under a National Govt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharn Posted January 26, 2007 Report Share Posted January 26, 2007 my kit measures in degrees alan and you just times it to get it into ppm. thats why i say 3Dkh (D=degrees). southerngirl, how many drops before the solution turns the to whatever colour it is supposed to? each drop means one degree (ie 3 drops to change colour means 3 degrees) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted January 26, 2007 Report Share Posted January 26, 2007 3 degrees is how many ppm? If you ring the Local Authority they will give you the hardness in ppm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southerrrngirrl Posted January 26, 2007 Report Share Posted January 26, 2007 Sharn, I think it only took 1-2 drops Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharn Posted January 28, 2007 Report Share Posted January 28, 2007 alan- 53.7ppm if you use 17.9ppm=1 degree. southerngirl, 1-2 is fairly soft, i have been told 3 is considered 'safe'. most people will never experience a ph crash/big swing (or perhaps they just dont notice it depending on what fish you keep) so its nothing major to worry about but im a paranoid fish keeper (i have no buffering at all in my water). i have read accounts of the ph crashing from 6 down to 3 in a matter of minutes and the fish werent too happy about it but they did live i think (discus). because you have a low kh those ph altering products will not work for very long because the water lacks the buffering to keep it there. to lower it ('it' being kh and in turn ph) you can use peat and to up it you can use shell grit, coral pieces etc (what african keepers use) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted January 28, 2007 Report Share Posted January 28, 2007 I take it that degrees is DH then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharn Posted January 28, 2007 Report Share Posted January 28, 2007 yes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted January 28, 2007 Report Share Posted January 28, 2007 Excuse my igarence but what is KH if K is the chemical symbol for potassium? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Posted January 28, 2007 Report Share Posted January 28, 2007 I think it comes from Karbonat Haerte which is German for carbonate hardness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted January 28, 2007 Report Share Posted January 28, 2007 That makes sense. Since I don't speak German I think I will stick to ppm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whiskas Posted January 28, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2007 sharn mentioned peat and shell bits for upping and lowering ph. Wat other more "natural" remedies are there for all these things that need to be kept stable, so we dont hav to use the chemicals? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Posted January 28, 2007 Report Share Posted January 28, 2007 Try out this site http://fins.actwin.com/mirror/begin-chem.html That'll give you an idea about what the terms are. If you go to "Contents" you'll get a run down of very useful information, aimed at "Beginners" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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