Ira Posted November 20, 2003 Report Share Posted November 20, 2003 Basically, I can start collecting bits if they're not too expensive. The tank I'm planning on using is a 4ft, 200L tank. Under the stand(Yeah, I know you hate it Pies) I think I've got enough room for a sump about 400mmX350X300. I was thinking I can get 3500ish l/hr pond pump for fairly cheap and use that as the pump. I'm not sure about skimmers, but the only one I've actually seen for sale doesn't seem particularly good. I thought maybethis one because it seems like a fairly good price, but is from Australia. Then there's getting liverock and appropriate sand. I was thinking of using a fairly deep sand bed. Oh, and lighting! Pies, back in another thread you said you knew a guy selling a 150watt MH light? What kinda price? I might hold off on the lighting at first though. Oh, and of course, I'll have to come see your tank sometime, hehe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Posted November 20, 2003 Report Share Posted November 20, 2003 Hey Ira, if you're going to use a pond-pump make sure it has absolutely no metal in contact with the water. Some grades of stainless steel are ok but most aren't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted November 20, 2003 Report Share Posted November 20, 2003 I would start with the tank and sump and heater before even thinking of skimmers etc. The tank can survive without a skimmer for a while. Keep an eye in trade & exchange etc too. The skimmer is the heart of the filtration system. So get a good one. Even some of the 'hang on' prizim skimmers have good reputations. The ones we see in some pet stores (sea clone) are considered the worst. The MH light, was our friend JetSkiSteve on this board. I'll ask him next time we catch up. For the tank, before you start, have a look at mine. Serious, it will make you think of things you never did. Running a sump is an 'art form', and takes some tweaking. I would do things differently. Under the tank equipment is fine, expecially for smaller tanks. Its the larger tanks that it becomes a real headache. You dimentions seem fine. Lots of people just use a $20.00 K-Mart bin for their sump. Easy to drill, and no big cost should you change you mind and need another. Get some 03 Actinic tubes, 4ft tank, get 2 single 4fts + the halide/s. Be lookin stylin. I can possibly give you enough sand for a dusting along the bottom of the tank. I STRONGLY reccomend against a DSB. They are hard to setup, take ages to cycle, there is some debate as to their long term benifit (old tank sysdrome). Worst of all you can't get detrivore kits here in NZ, so its really hard to create a live sand top for the DSB. I have syphoned out a lot of sand from my tank, it just wasn't working. The return pump. For a tank your size, don't muck about. Get an Ehiem 1260/1262 and let that be the end of it I know the debate is raging about Ehiem. EVERY reefer I know uses these pumps, simply cause they NEVER stop working. Salt water is a killer. Good luck, I knew you would fold, i'm just surprised it took this long Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted November 20, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2003 It's not me that needed to fold, it's the wife that needed to fold. How much is the eheim pump? If they're like the rest of their stuff probably f*cking expensive. I can get that 3000 l/hr pump for about $100 and it's a brand someone else said they had and was doing well, but I can't remember the name. I'm pretty sure it's all plastic, except the magnet on the impeller, of course. I know I can run it without a skimmer for a while, but seeing as I'm not going to be running it at ALL for a while I'm aiming for collecting everything I'll need. Well, it is running at the moment with a handful of FW fish that I'll have to get rid of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Posted November 20, 2003 Report Share Posted November 20, 2003 Usually the magnets are plastic coated so are ok. Sometimes they leak a bit and the magnet rusts. This usually isn't too much of a problem in FW but will be very bad in Saltwater. Get the highest quality pump you can afford. It is after the lifeline for your marine tank (well one of them). The Eheim is an excellent pump. You don't get something good for nothing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted November 20, 2003 Report Share Posted November 20, 2003 ira the skimmer that you gave the link to is too small and would not do the job. i good skimmer will cost about $600 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted November 20, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2003 Where can I GET a good skimmer? I can't just go to a store here in Wellington so it seems the only option is somewhere over the internet. Can someone at least give me the name and model of a good skimmer so I can have a look for it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted November 20, 2003 Report Share Posted November 20, 2003 IRA. I've asked some friends in Auckland to have a look around (several people import skimmers), there may also be some second hand options. A general rule of thumb is bigger skillers are better than smaller ones. Motor driven are better than airstone driver (counter current). IRA. Tell us exactly what you hope to do? Reef? Fish? Live rock? As per my advice here with rock, get some rock first and start it cycling, or cycle it in the ocean! Thats what I am doing next time. Pies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmatix Posted November 20, 2003 Report Share Posted November 20, 2003 The prizm deluxe skimmer from Red Sea is a recent arrival and the supplier sold out vey quickly they are a mid-top end skimmer (imop). It will skim a 400l tank so realisticly a 300L and a 200L without any problem they are around $360 from memory and come with a pump. The only downfall is that they are a hang on skimmer but the best value for money for a tank that size, they will be back in stock christmas/december Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted November 21, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2003 For the moment I'm aiming for a FOWLR, I can upgrade it to a reef later. I suppose I'll have to get dead rock shipped from probably Auckland. With my tank size I'd be aiming for around 50 pounds of live rock so would need to start off with 50 lbs of dead rock? Base rock I guess is the correct term. I'm definitely starting to think I might just need to take a trip down to Christchurch to get the bits I'll need...Oh, and visit the relatives there of course. The prizm deluxe sounds good, about the right size and cost. I checked the prices on them in the US and surprisingly they're still fairly close to that $360. Ignoring that I'd probably have to replace the pump. I'm off to Oderings to have a look at their pond pumps again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted November 21, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2003 Ok, here we go if anyone has any comments on these ones, the most appropriate of the ones there... Heissner Amazonas-S [email protected] head $160(My choice) Laguna Powerjet 3000 [email protected] head $150 I think they used to have something starting with a Y, but they didn't today...Was that you, Reef? Oh well. I've also emailed someplace asking for a price on an Eheim 1262 because I didn't get a chance to stop at a fish store. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted November 21, 2003 Report Share Posted November 21, 2003 prizm skimmers???? i dont rate them, cheap and nasty. the red sea prism skimmers dont pull enough air into them. they did test in germany and they could not even get a reading because the air flow going in was so low. any skimmer will skim .In tests they found that most commonly available red sea prizm utilise only 40 - 80 lts of air per hour and are in no way suitable for the tank volumes that they recommend. Any skimmer will remove waste from a tank when it is at dangerous levels Skimming is very important as it will give you a margin of error in terms of water quality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted November 21, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2003 Then what would you suggest, Reef? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted November 26, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 26, 2003 I got a quote for an eheim 1262. Would be about $340. So, I'll definitely go with the heissner pump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted November 26, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 26, 2003 On second thought, I've been looking at more aussie websites and now I'm thinking a Via Aqua 3600 for $126 is looking good. Aquamail.com.au seems to have good prices. At the very least it's on the internet AND has prices which is more than I can say for ANY NZ site. Also, I've been basically told never to buy a red sea prizm on another board by several different people. But, their suggestion, AquaC Remora, I can't seem to find. Anyone know if they're available here? I've found prices for a Prizm($360) and prizm pro($650), but no deluxe. I'm guessing the prizm deluxe is closer to the prizm because the prizm pro is sized for up to 1200L tanks...Which would obviously be SERIOUSLY oversized. Australia uses the same power as here, don't they? I measured up a plastic bin I've been using as a temporary spare tank and it's about 390X280X290 So if I can find one a bit wider and a bit longer it'd be perfect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted November 26, 2003 Report Share Posted November 26, 2003 I know someone who is going to order the exact same skimmer from the states (the AquaC). Perhapps there is an option there to share freight if you are 100% on that skimmer. Pumps. I looked at the Via Aqua, but when I was looking they only work internal but there is a kit to purchase for external use. There pumps have a poor reputation for sump pumps, people claim they don't last and are not as powerful as claimed. I have an Ehiem 1262 just over 6mths old. You can have it for $280.00. I also have an SCWD for sale, you can have for $100.00. Aussie use the same power, different plug. Pies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted November 26, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 26, 2003 SCWD? Something something waved device isn't it? I think I'll skip that for now. What is the guy you know going to do about the different power from the US? I'm not sure but I think I've read that you can just change the pump with remoras so is he getting one without the pump and using a local one? I'm not really 100% on it, more about 66.66% Hmmm, $280...I'll have a think about that. Is your offer to have a ogle at your tank still available? Do you use bulkhead fittings on your tank/sump? Where's a good place to get them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted November 27, 2003 Report Share Posted November 27, 2003 SCWD. Remeber if you want to keep inverts you NEED some wat to create random water current. SCWD are popular, expecially with smaller tanks for the return pump. They create swaying in 3 and 4ft tanks, and will reduce the need/number of closed loops and or powerheads in the tank. He is buying it without the pump and fitting an Ehiem. Its got good reviews, and is good quality etc. Its an in-sump skimmer, which I don't like, but each to their own. In-sump skimmers work equally as well as external ones. A skimmer is VERY important. The biggest mistake you can make is buying a poor skimmer. you will be stuck with it, and still have to buy good one. Its also hard to have a successful tank without good skimming. $280.00 is a good price, and its only been run for 6 months. I am still using 1 of these 1262s with a SCWD. You are more than welcome to come and look at the tank and setup. I would suggest you do before you start buying. Especially if you are going to use a sump, there are lessons to be learned from my mistakes. Bulkheads. This is what the Americans call them, no one in NZ will know what you mean. In NZ they are called 'tank valve fittings' or something. Mico in the hutt (by the Parrot Jigger) has them in stock, they are black, and made by a company called 'Hansen'. They have threads on each side, and they also have all of the screw or glued fitting you will need. ask for a 20% discount, you will get it. they also sell taps with unions, they are grey with blue handles and worth their weight in gold, i think they were about $25 ea and come with screw or slip/glue fittings. Plumbing is expensive, and don't do what I did and do it poorly. GLUE everything, leeks are such hard work to fix. Also, if I was doing a smaller tank with smaller fittings I would look at 'john guest' plumbing. Slip on, no glue, cheap etc. Perfect for smaller piping like the ones from ehiem pumps. Pies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted November 27, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 27, 2003 According to their website the Remora is a HOB/in sump. The urchin is an in sump only version of the remora. I'm leaning towards just getting a Prizm deluxe, save all the hastle for now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted November 27, 2003 Report Share Posted November 27, 2003 Ira. Buy a good skimmer. if you can't affford one, then don't start the marine tank until you can. Bellow is an example of what happens if you dont, and also some info about the prizm as well. wetwebmedia... Moving On Up! Hi Crew, I have a small hex 25g reef tank, 30kg live rock (is this too little), some soft corals - (mushrooms / leather / xenia), 2 false clowns and 1 eibli angel. This has been my first venture in to fish keeping and I am completely taken with it. Yes, I do regret already buying a tank this size and am planning to trade up to the Aquamedic Percula 120 (any comments on this set-up?) in January 03 and use this tank as a Quarantine tank, so it's not money down the drain. The main filter is a Fluval 404 and I have a mini internal Fluval which I keep some Polyfilter in and add circulation (too much current?) and a 6w UV. The lights are 1x15w Power-Glo, 1x15w Marine-Glo, 1x15w Life-Glo. I know there are lots of pro's and con's about a UV, but my rationale was that with a small tank, I didn't want to risk killing any fish due to a disease outbreak. The levels in the tank are as follows: Nitrate-0, Ammonia-0, Phos-0.3,Salinity 1.022, Temp 77.0 (fluctuates by 0.2 max), Nitrate-5, dkh-6.2,Calcium 460. During the purchase as these items, I initially purchased a Aqua-medic Mini-Flotor Skimmer, but this took up far too much room in the tank. Thereafter, I was suckered in to purchasing the Prizm deluxe skimmer by the same shop. While this worked great for the first month, it is now churning out clear wet foam. Additionally, I have now started seeing some hair algae growing on the edges of the rock. My questions are as follows: Have you any experience with the Aquamedic Biostar Wet/Dry-Skimmer? Would this be a good replacement for the Prizm (I guess anything would be a good replacement for the Prizm). I am looking for an external hang-on type. If I purchase the above, should I transfer some of the substrate from the Fluval 404 to the above to kick start it? I don't plan to increase the number of corals until the new tank is up and running next year. In the meantime do I have room for a Royal Gamma in this tank? Are the lights suitable for the health of the corals. They are all flourishing and growing. Very difficult to get hold of Power Compacts in the UK with external ballast and I don't really want to add any more heat in the hood. I am using Kent SuperdKH as my buffer, but struggle to get me dkh above 6.2, what should I use instead (in fact all my additives are Kent - Liquid Calcium, Iodine, S&M...I'm sure the fish shop is in on a deal with Kent / Hagen!) Any suggestions for alternatives that are available in the UK? Think your web-site is great. Before I spent my money on the hardware I purchased a number of books, with retrospect I should have saved the cash (used it for a better skimmer?) and just read through your FAQ's. Thanks in advance for your help. Regards, Sandeep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted November 27, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 27, 2003 Problem is the longer I wait, the smaller the budget gets. How much is it going to cost that guy? And I'd definitely have to get the Remora, not the in sump only version. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janey Posted November 27, 2003 Report Share Posted November 27, 2003 Patience... I brought a Deltec, and i'd be surprised if my next skimmer (should I EVER need one) will be Deltec too (although i'd condier a TUNZE as they are smaller). Check the trade and exchange or ask 'reef' on this site to find you a skimmer. FYI I paid $850.00 for my skimmer, including taps, and the Ehiem pump, and was greatfull for it. There is some 2nd hand stuff about. Pies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted November 27, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 27, 2003 I haven't seen ANY second hand skimmers. Closest thing to secondhand marine equipment I've been able to find is a "Finding Nemo" tank on Trademe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted November 27, 2003 Report Share Posted November 27, 2003 Check the Auckland T&E. I havn't looked for a while, but there is often stuff there. Why not put a wanted in here "want skimmer for xx.xx litre tank, budget of no more than $xx.xx". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted November 27, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 27, 2003 I did check the website a few days ago, lemme check again... Hmmm, there's an entire tank there, in Auckland. salt water tank w purple clown & brown tang, metal halides, 2 pumps,immer & cab, coral rocks,her cleaning eqpt $150 I'm not really sure about anything just from that though, and since it's a week old I bet it's gone by now for $150. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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