chimera Posted December 8, 2006 Report Share Posted December 8, 2006 Shane came over this morning to pick up my LPS until i get to the bottom of the problem. While he was here I noticed rust "dripping" from the bearing at the bottom of the closed loop. This could make sense as I replaced that bearing around the same time as I started having issues. Would the addition of rust to the system cause the acro's to die but fish live? I assume it's just like dosing a high content of iron? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted December 9, 2006 Report Share Posted December 9, 2006 Noone seems to be able to agree on whether metal rusting in the tank would cause a problem or not. But, still, I'd try replacing that with a bearing that doesn't rust. There's probably more than just iron in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Posted December 9, 2006 Report Share Posted December 9, 2006 I don't think it would be good for the tank. I think you may have found your problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted December 9, 2006 Report Share Posted December 9, 2006 One would think there had been no discussions on iron in this forum before ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeBlog Posted December 9, 2006 Report Share Posted December 9, 2006 Shane came over this morning to pick up my LPS until i get to the bottom of the problem. While he was here I noticed rust "dripping" from the bearing at the bottom of the closed loop. This could make sense as I replaced that bearing around the same time as I started having issues. Would the addition of rust to the system cause the acro's to die but fish live? I assume it's just like dosing a high content of iron? I brought this up about 10 pages back. I was then told not to worry about it. So, is it a worry or not?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feelers Posted December 9, 2006 Report Share Posted December 9, 2006 I know of someone who had an octopus killed by a rusted bearing/shaft in their return pump. I dont think heavy metals floating around can be anything but bad. Do you have cleaner shrimps Chimera? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted December 9, 2006 Report Share Posted December 9, 2006 Do you have cleaner shrimps Chimera? yes. One would think there had been no discussions on iron in this forum before everything in proportion I brought this up about 10 pages back. I was then told not to worry about it. So, is it a worry or not?! in high doses, I would imagine yes. anyone have an iron test kit? wasp i think you got one? will be pissed if thats it - such a mega loss of money for something so small. closed loop is off at the moment and ball valves are all shut off. will see what happens after next big water change... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feelers Posted December 9, 2006 Report Share Posted December 9, 2006 Well I would have picked the shrimps to die first off. So its only SPS. Perhaps there is some metal which interferes with them specifically, maybe blocking a vital enzyme or something. Are there any metals known to interfere with the building of their calcium skeletons etc? Appart from being much more fragile in a general sense they must have some pretty big differences from your LPS considering they are all ok. Does anyone know of toxins that are SPS specific? Do you know whats in the bearing Chimera? Laytons the guy to ask about this stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted December 10, 2006 Report Share Posted December 10, 2006 Would the addition of rust to the system cause the acro's to die but fish live? I assume it's just like dosing a high content of iron? Assuming it is pure iron, a little is a good thing, I dose iron to my tank each day. But too much can cause problems for the zooxanthellae and consequently bleaching and bright colours to the corals, exactly as you have been experiencing. Hard to say how much is too much though, personally I would have doubted that a little dripping off a bearing would be too much for your tank, but as the symptoms of your corals have been right in line with an iron overdose, perhaps this is the issue. Anyhow, presumably you have resolved the iron drip now, be interested to hear back in due course if this has fixed the problem. Wouldn't it be such a bummer to go through all this heartache just from such a simple thing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracker Posted December 11, 2006 Report Share Posted December 11, 2006 I find this interesting....I have seen people leave razor blades in there tank. I personally have a rusty circlip holding one of my hoses on to a pump in my sump as we speak. I dont seem to be expoeriencing any problems and in fact have a couple of Chimeras corals which are repairing and are colouring up. I dont think rust would be the issue, but maybe it has another alloy in the bearing. How rusty is this bearing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickle Pickle Posted December 11, 2006 Report Share Posted December 11, 2006 I personally have a rusty circlip holding one of my hoses on to a pump So do I and I also don't seem to be having any problems in my tank. My frags seem to be doing really well atm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KP Posted December 11, 2006 Report Share Posted December 11, 2006 Wasp don't worry about dosing iron just chuck a rusty circlip in :lol: :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted December 11, 2006 Report Share Posted December 11, 2006 Wasp don't worry about dosing iron just chuck a rusty circlip in :lol: :lol: True actually! I have in times past had the odd rusty thing laying around in the tank & just left it there. Now I'm dosing it because the zeovit iron is extremely cheap, cents a month, and by dosing I know exactly how much is going in. The thing is, an iron overdose can give the symptoms Chimera has, so while we are clutching at straws looking for a reason for his issues it would make sense to remove this source of iron. And in addition as others said, if it is some sort of alloy it could be leaching some other undesireables into his water. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeBlog Posted December 11, 2006 Report Share Posted December 11, 2006 This is what I pulled out of my tank. Do you think this could have caused an overdose of iron?! This is the pump sitting in vinegar. All that rust, etc... would have gone into my tank as well. I presume that wouldn't have been good. This could be why things (SPS coral only) were dying in my tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TM Posted December 11, 2006 Report Share Posted December 11, 2006 Looks like the magnet has completly gone? There other metals in magnets that could cause problems. Here are a few types. Neodymium Iron Boron (NdFeB or NIB) Samarium Cobalt (SmCo) Alnico Ceramic or Ferrite Not sure what magnets eheim use, maybe an email to them is in order Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted December 11, 2006 Report Share Posted December 11, 2006 Wow, was that thing actually running like that!!! Yes I remember you saying you were having problems, same kind of thing as Chimera, or different? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted December 11, 2006 Report Share Posted December 11, 2006 It's the iron . (That was the reason for my zeovit suggestions near the start of this thread, for which I got abused) The thing with iron is that it has varying effects of different type of corals. It's effects can dependent on previous exposure, so it's difficult to pin down a "critical" level. Plus you end up with bacteria causing more trouble. The less of them the better. The progression chimera describes is fairly typical of iron exposure. (Search for my previous posts on iron, Saharan dust, Caribbean reefs, IronEx etc if you want more info) I'm not sure about this discussion on adding iron. In my opinion, as aquarists we're in no position to be able to manipulate iron levels like we do other parameters (Alk, Mag, Calcium etc) I think of iron like P (only you need a LOT less of it than even P). Organisms go to extreme lengths to sequester it from a number of sources (just like P), it is VERY tightly cycled in the system (just like P), and it tends to accumulate (just like P). Iron in pumps is the worst possible place for it to be. I'd say that the eddy currents created in the iron with the strong roatating magnetic fields within the pump, would cause a electrochemical reaction which would literally spew iron ions into the water. Which I guess would be why these pump parts, with the small amount of iron, (relative to say dumping a pile of rust in the form or rowaphos or other phosphate absorber) can cause much larger problems (larger release over shorter period of time). Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeBlog Posted December 11, 2006 Report Share Posted December 11, 2006 Wow, was that thing actually running like that!!! Not really well. I used to have to pound on it from time to time to get it to go. I just thought that there was calcium build up and too lazy to soak in vinegar. When I finally decided that I was tired of the pounding, that is what I found. :oops: Yes I remember you saying you were having problems, same kind of thing as Chimera, or different? From what I gather, I was having the same as Chimera, i.e. almost all SPS STN or in some cases RTN. The only ones that weren't affected were the millis. They must be tough little b@$t@rd$! I took most of them out before they completely died (or at least a frag) and they all recovered shortly after being placed in my mates tank. I did ~50% water change, kept everything else as stable as possible and just waited. It's been quite a while, but I think I've just started to turn the corner, i.e. no more new tissue loss on the remaining corals for quite a few days. This pump wasn't my only problem. I also had P04 OFF THE CHARTS due to a bad test kit. The bad pump followed shortly after. The combination may have just been too much for the little guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted December 11, 2006 Report Share Posted December 11, 2006 Interesting comment about the millis, they are funny corals, in my tank they sometimes do the opposite to the other sps. Well let's hope it was the iron & phosphate, at least you've identified it & can effect a resolution. Be interesting to see if Chimeras tank can turn around if he removes the iron contamination. Although it's still not certain Chimeras problem is iron, just hope it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted December 11, 2006 Report Share Posted December 11, 2006 Good to see that post was edited. It's one of the reasons I'm loathed to post here now. Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmatix Posted December 11, 2006 Report Share Posted December 11, 2006 Interesting comment about the millis, they are funny corals, in my tank they sometimes do the opposite to the other sps. Well let's hope it was the iron & phosphate, at least you've identified it & can effect a resolution. Be interesting to see if Chimeras tank can turn around if he removes the iron contamination. Although it's still not certain Chimeras problem is iron, just hope it is. So was the Iron level tested and confirmed or just suspected ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetskisteve Posted December 11, 2006 Report Share Posted December 11, 2006 It's one of the reasons I'm loathed to post here now ah but u keep on doing it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmatix Posted December 11, 2006 Report Share Posted December 11, 2006 Understand where youre comming from layton Did you read my post on new acro growth at snapped tips ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted December 11, 2006 Report Share Posted December 11, 2006 So was the Iron level tested and confirmed or just suspected ? No not confirmed at all. That's why I think it's a bit premature to state that it is iron. There is just not enough solid information to make that assumption. Specially since others including myself have done similar with no problems. But it MIGHT be iron, therefore the contamination should be eliminated & see if that helps. I'll be interested to hear back from Joe Blogg though how long till his tank comes right. Perhaps if we see things starting to go bad, one thing to check would be all the pumps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmatix Posted December 11, 2006 Report Share Posted December 11, 2006 I had a bad experiance with rowa had i negative effect on a couple of acros/sps had IMO had a very bad effect on all pumps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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