ZEOvitANZ Posted November 10, 2006 Report Share Posted November 10, 2006 Thats because you are now 6 months into dosing and things change within the tank. Most people are able to adapt the system to suit the tank. I worked out how to use zeovit when the instructions were in German. Brendan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDM Posted November 10, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2006 Agreed, but you also gave me instructions for after the first 4 weeks, still different, when i mentioned the 2ml start per day, you advised i had read it wrong and i should use .2ml per day, aged salt has since said 2ml per day........ Nothing against you Brendan, you have been nothing but helpful, and great to deal with, im just pointing out what has happened, and probably the reason why im having the problems im having. A product with an owners Manuel that provides the correct information would be helpful, zeovit guide says different again to all recommendations i have received. I believe that zeovit is a good product that will work well when used correctly, just seems hard to find out how to use it correctly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDM Posted November 10, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2006 Most people are able to adapt the system to suit the tank. Brendan Just reread your post, are you saying that the dosing is up to the user to readjust as the feel necessary? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted November 10, 2006 Report Share Posted November 10, 2006 i prefer to work in "drops" - easy to remember and thats how the bottles of zeovit i've got come with. i think mine was 6 drops of zeofood and 6 of zeobac twice weekly for my tank - although i went usually went 4 of food. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZEOvitANZ Posted November 10, 2006 Report Share Posted November 10, 2006 Why are people so reliant on what their test kits are saying. If I was you I would be happy with the coral colours you have got. It's a really nice looking aquarium. So what if your nitrate test kit is saying 50 , what is the problem in your tank ? Nitrates are no were as important as phosphates when it comes to coral colouring. You also have to remember that I was using zeovit 3 years before the americans had even heard of the product. Now you are taking the advice from people who's tanks you have not seen in real life. You should rely on your eyeball a bit more. If your corals are looking sad do something about it. Not look at a test kit when your corals are looking good, panic and do something drastic. The confusion with start2 was caused by the manufacturer changing the product. That caused me to say dose .2 ml a day not 2 ml as I would with the newer start2. Ask "cookie extreme" about that. I can't go around the country holding peoples hand when it comes to dosing zeovit. You have my phone number and email address, if you think you are doing it wrong contact me. Brendan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted November 10, 2006 Report Share Posted November 10, 2006 You also have to remember that I was using zeovit 3 years before the americans had even heard of the product Is this the before or after pics. Why are people so reliant on what their test kits are saying. Because you can spot problems before they happen. i test weekly and it is surprising how things change. nitrate of 50ppm might be ok on a short term basis however can effect sps corals . even some tanks with high po4 are ok for a short term basis before you loose colour. generally i have found it takes two weeks before they show dramatic loss of colour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted November 10, 2006 Report Share Posted November 10, 2006 zeo guide say 10% weekly water changes, seems that most people say you must stick to this Could be a build up of something. Weekly water changes are good for the tank as you dont tend to stress stock with dramtic changes. I found that you start to get hair algae if you dont do weekly water changes and have also read this happening to a few guys on the zeovit forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDM Posted November 10, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2006 Why are people so reliant on what their test kits are saying. If I was you I would be happy with the coral colours you have got. It's a really nice looking aquarium. So what if your nitrate test kit is saying 50 , what is the problem in your tank ? Nitrates are no were as important as phosphates when it comes to coral colouring. You also have to remember that I was using zeovit 3 years before the americans had even heard of the product. Now you are taking the advice from people who's tanks you have not seen in real life. You should rely on your eyeball a bit more. If your corals are looking sad do something about it. Not look at a test kit when your corals are looking good, panic and do something drastic. The confusion with start2 was caused by the manufacturer changing the product. That caused me to say dose .2 ml a day not 2 ml as I would with the newer start2. Ask "cookie extreme" about that. I can't go around the country holding peoples hand when it comes to dosing zeovit. You have my phone number and email address, if you think you are doing it wrong contact me. Brendan calm down..... take a breath...... im not sure what you having used zeovit before the usa had it has to do with my current situation, no one in there right mind would dubt your knowlidge of zeovit. i am worried about my nitrate level as it is well above the reccomended "safe level" and i would rather do somthing about that now rather than sit and wait for my corals to show signs of problems and then not be able to deal with them, a wise person once told me "prevention is better than cure"! anyhow i started with zeovit to reduce the neutrents in my tank, po4 and no3 were my targets, why did you start with zeovit? i have not seen any of the tanks from zeovit.com in person, have you? i am taking advice from people who have more experance than myself, last time i checked that was called learning. do you own a nitrate test kit? do you use it? do you take notice of what the reading is? would you take measures to reduce nitrate levels if your test kit read 50? i think the answers to the questions above speak for them selfs....... i asked your advice, you said rreduce the start2, i did this...... coral color is not the only thing i am concerned with, growth is also important to me, take cookie's tank, po4 = 0, no3 =0, color = excellent, growth =outsatnding, see a trend? as far as i am concerned, i have a nitrate problem, if left im sure it will spell doom for my corals, i am not going to sit a wait for my eyes to see the problem, i cannot see nitrate, thats why i own a test kit, if i could see problems starting there is a very good chance that i have let it too late to help the corals. i would think that as a customer of yours, i would expect a polite well mannered response, to use terms like I can't go around the country holding peoples hand when it comes to dosing zeovit i feel that you have missed the point, i have enquired about the dosing, you advised me to reduce start2 without checking which one i had, untill you said yesterday that there were 2 differant formulations, i was not aware of this. if it is too much trouble to help me, then dont bother with posts like your last, i have a fair amount of time and money invested into my tank, i am not prepared to ignore the nitrate level, i will do somthing about it, i will reduce it to a safe level, you could have a portion of my income and help me solve this problem, but with an attude like that i will not be giving you anymore of my money... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feelers Posted November 10, 2006 Report Share Posted November 10, 2006 Can it be??? An argument in a Zeovit thread and it's nothing to do with Layton! :lol: 8) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puttputt Posted November 10, 2006 Report Share Posted November 10, 2006 like it Feelers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDM Posted November 10, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2006 :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted November 10, 2006 Report Share Posted November 10, 2006 Here's my take - If my nitrate was 50 I'd be pretty sick also, I can understand the frustration. I can see Brendans side too though, here's why. - When I started zeovit, it transformed my tank, and in a short period of time. I found it awesome, and assumed it would be the same for everybody. I did not hesitate to recommend it, regardless of critisizm and argument thrown at me, as I went by what I had experienced. However, several people, usually with something wrong with their tank they were trying to "fix", contacted me asking about zeovit, and I said yes do it! That's when things started to go wrong, they'd ask me about dosing and I'd basically tell them to do the same as I was doing. Most often, it didn't work for them & I'd feel bad as they had spent the money. I must have just been lucky as my tank was obviously just right for the recommended dose rates. I've seen it on zeovit.com also, many different tanks have to use very different dose rates to achieve results, as all tanks are different. Some people also "fall by the wayside" and give up zeovit altogether as they could not make it work. Knowing how bad I feel about this when I've been involved, it must be pretty frustrating for Brendan. The zeoguide basically recommends two methods for dosing. Firstly it gives a recommended dose rate for each product. But then for many products, it gives bioindicators to detirmine if you are under or overdosing. So a person should start with the recommended dose, but then observe the tank & look for signs that too much / too little is being dosed. In this way the correct dosing schedule for each individual tank is eventually arrived at, but it does require effort. Me, I watch the tank carefully, and although I have a written dosing schedule, I would make some small change to it every 2 or 3 weeks. I see this as part of the challenge / enjoyment of the hobby, but I can also see for many people this is just too much work. Also, when I set up the tank I have now, I was not able to get the zeovit going for the first couple of months, and during this time the corals suffered badly. Once I finally got the zeovit running it took months to have any effect, not like my first experience with it at all, and this despite by now I had good knowledge of the product. If I was a zeo newby I could easily have chucked in the towel. So it is definately different in different tanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossco Posted November 10, 2006 Report Share Posted November 10, 2006 Good summary Wasp. I ain't a greenie but...I think we as people greatly overestimate our ability to control things that have taken thousands of years to develop. Look what we are doing to the environment! And here we go as reefers trying to develop a slice of an ecosystem in a relatively minute, highly overpopulated space. The paradox of reefing is that we achieve 'stability' through constantly changing internal dynamics. We are only measuring a fraction of those. I think we should all be bloody proud of being able to achieve what we do! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDM Posted November 10, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2006 Thank you wasp, I can also see Brendan’s side, and I do think he is in a hard position. however, I work in an environment where contact with customers is a daily thing, the product we supply is not too different to zeovit in a way, some people totally swear by it and will never use anything else, some people curse the day they brought it and then we/I hear about it and have to sort there problems, normally I can achieve this by listing to there problems and helping them understand the reasons why there having trouble and advise them on methods to solve there problem. I would not talk to a customer in a negative manor, no matter how frustrated I became. Part of my problem is my fault, I did not ask on the zeovit web site when I first noticed things, silly really. i just followed the instructions that i had receved and made changes where i was told to. Being in the customer service field, dealing with high end equipment, I am very particular with how I am treated as a customer, I have only 2 marine shops that I will deal with, one in Auckland and one in Hamilton, the reason I will only deal with these shops is because they offer the customer service that I believe we all deserve due to the money we put through there business, I do give people a second chance as I realise they may be having a bad day and I catch the blunt end of the stick, while not acceptable it is understandable. The end result is, I have not been using zeovit correctly for my tank even though I have been doing as advised, I have faith in the product, I don’t in the instructions, it is a product that requires a lot of adjusting to get right, and as you have said wasp, it needs to be customised to each tank to work correctly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted November 10, 2006 Report Share Posted November 10, 2006 I think we should all be bloody proud of being able to achieve what we do! Well said, sometimes I think it's amazing! the product we supply is not too different to zeovit in a way, some people totally swear by it and will never use anything else, some people curse the day they brought it and then we/I hear about it and have to sort there problems. He He! Sounds just like zeovit :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Posted November 11, 2006 Report Share Posted November 11, 2006 I have just started using zeo again and will report how my tank changes. But I do agree it is quite expensive when you have a large tank. Especillay if you don't get results. Black magic or green magic some of the tank using zeo are impresive, also many impresive tanks not using zeo. Is it worth the $$$$$ time will tell. :roll: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drifty Posted November 11, 2006 Report Share Posted November 11, 2006 what is an approx monthly cost for a 1000l tank then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted November 11, 2006 Report Share Posted November 11, 2006 Ok I'm a little rusty on prices because some of the chemicals I bought when I started, I still have. Don't use much of some & I cannot remember what I paid exactly. It also depends if you are just going to use the essential "basic 4", or if you want to use other stuff also for further enhancement. My tank is 200 litres and my GUESS is, for the basic 4, 20 or so $$ per month, and another 10 - 15 or so for the rest, I'm pretty much using the whole range. This could be multiplied by 5 for a 1000 litre tank. So for a big tank it is fairly expensive, one of the reasons I stayed with a small tank when I upgraded. I probably could go cheaper, but I don't skimp, anything I think I should use, I use. BTW anyone else please say what your costs are also, be interesting, there is probably quite a variation depending on how people use it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Posted November 11, 2006 Report Share Posted November 11, 2006 Looking on the net 1ml = 20 drops fron a eye dropper. Bags of rock come in 1 litre bags. $35 a bag. 1.5l per 6weeks = $37.5 per month. Bacteria is $35 for 10 mls = 200 drops = 8 drops twice a week = 12 weeks = $12.13 per month. Zeofood7 is $35 for 50 mls 8drops twice weekly = $2.43 per month Zeostart2 is $70 for 250 mls = 3mls daily = $25.55 per month CV Pohls $70 for 50mls = 8 drops daily = $17.03 per month AAHC is Aminio Acid High Concentrate $70 50m = 3 drops daily = $6.39 per month K B is Pottasium Balance, good for blue and red colours $86 for 500 mls = 1ml per day = $5.17 monthly So based on the above for a 800l tank = $ 106.20 month Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted November 11, 2006 Report Share Posted November 11, 2006 Interesting to see it all worked out properly Duke. You are a bit cheaper than my "guestimate", but I'm using a few extra things also, albeit in tiny amounts. So I think your calculations pretty accurate. So looks like someone considering zeovit, could think around $106.00 per 800 litres per month. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDM Posted November 12, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2006 a box of po4 remover $70, lasts aprox 6 months nitrate reactor $250 lasts aprox 3-5 years (what ive been told) combined costs per month=$16.66 (no3 remover)+$11.66(po4 remover)=$28.33 this is for a medium stocked 400ltr tank. and you dont need to worry about adjusting your aditives to make sure its working. i can see both side of this coin. however i will be removing zeovit and adding a fluidzed po4 filter and a sulphur denitrator, it will be interesting to see how my corals respond to the change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted November 12, 2006 Report Share Posted November 12, 2006 So based on the above for a 800l tank = $ 106.20 month Would be interesting to do a comparison with other systems like prodibio, ultralith, polylabs, etc. All work on the same principal being bacteria and food source The zeovit cost can be reduced as you don’t even need some of the stuff to get results. there are a few guys not using the zeolite and start2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted November 12, 2006 Report Share Posted November 12, 2006 however i will be removing zeovit and adding a fluidzed po4 filter and a sulphur denitrator, it will be interesting to see how my corals respond to the change. If you removing zeovit, perhaps the most simple solution would be to use a UV. Favourable comments from those who tried them, it's plug & play, and Layton said UV got his nitrates to zero in a few days. If I wasn't using zeo i would probably use one of these myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDM Posted November 12, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2006 yes, i have had thoughts on using uv, i havnt see one that is 40w as this is what layton said i need, but to be honest i havent looked very hard, just lfs and TM, might take a closer look. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 Well after learning that about the new start2 which needs a bigger dose I upped my dose to about 1/2 the recommended dose. It's great! Since setting up this tank there has been a nitrate problem, started at about 20ish but slowly dropped to 2.5, but has stubbornly stuck there for several months. Anyhow a few days after increasing the start2 dose I tested nitrate, 1.0. Then today I tested, 0.0 :bounce: Interesting thing also, my purple montipora used to be a lovely purple in my old tank, which had undetectable nitrate. But since being in the new tank it has been a solid brown. However over the last few days I've noticed a slight tinge of purple creeping in! :bounce: :bounce: May this trend continue . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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