wasp

Fear not Layton, the horse has not bolted :lol: I have no problem with a calculator, they are a good thing. I have even used a calculator. Just think the whole argument is pretty dum. I also think it is a bit arrogant to assume that just because somebody does not use a calculator means it is because they are too ignorant & need your instruction.

Pretty dum argument Layton. Someone can use a calculator, or they may have dosed their tank enough times to know what's needed. Doubt anyone needs your help to tell them how to use the calculator. :roll:

It is assumed that as they will kill parasites passing through them, they will reduce reinfestation rates, making it easier for the fish to fight what they have. Don't know if they could safely be used with copper, Layton may know. However no need to use with copper as the copper will kill all white spot anyhow.

Awesome!!!

:bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

Well real pleased you saved him! A fish with 9 lives!! You may find that what you have done so far is not a complete failure, it will have bought the fish some more time to further develop immunity to the white spot, they may yet throw it off with no further treatment. How much rock did I take to 1.009? To be honest I'm not sure, it was a 4 foot, 220 odd litre frag tank, with perhaps 8 - 10 kg rock and a few fish. I just removed all the frags & wound down the salinity. No issues with ammonia / nitrite, but as I couldn't skim there was a nutrient buildup & growth of green stuff. However this did not bother the fish, in fact they enjoyed eating it. How long for? Sorry can't remember that either but probably 6 - 8 weeks. At the end I restored salinity by draining most of the water & dripping in normal salinty water over a week or so. The fish had to live in shallow water for a few days. Far as I could tell the rock performed normally throughout. Copper is 100% guaranteed to kill all white spot, but of course you will need to leave the main tank fallow for 6 weeks. Copper can also be harmful to fish, I have personally lost more fish to copper than I have to white spot. If you go that route, could be helpful to give the fish as much time as possible before treatment to get their systems up & running again properly before being exposed to the copper. I see you are in Auckland, if you wish I can loan you a cannister with biomedia in it that has been exposed to copper, use this to do the filtration rather than waste some rock.

How's it going Tel?

You really have 2 options, copepods, and rotifers. Both come in several different species and sizes. Copepods, which can be seen by eye, are bigger than rotifers, and exist in many marine aquariums. Rotifers have to be cultured seperately, which may involve considerable effort and knowledge.

Yes, you have the very attractive, but slowish growing, red caulerpa. Looks like it's getting munched on though!

Don't have any personal experience with this, but a guy on another forum had the same problem with monti digi & was told it can be caused by alkalinity too high relative to calcium. Got to say though what shows in your pic looks in primo health, a very nice specimen. I'd frag a few bits anyway and spread them around, see if they do a bit better.

Good pic Steve! I can plan the scalpel angles from here :lol:

I had a big search for some chaetomorpha in the days when I had a refugium, but could not locate any in NZ. Pretty much every common form of caulerpa is available here though. From what I could gather, the importation of chaetomorpha is illegal, so it would be a case of trying to get some when it is brought in accidentally. There is a chaetomorpha that grows around the coast of NZ, but it is not the same one generally used in refugiums. However, for me, a macro algae refugium is no longer required, or possible. As Layton has said Quote "They require a dirty environment (relative to the conditions you're trying to achieve) to grow. So while you're trying to create a low nutrient environment by growing stuff which requires a dirty environment." And my environement is not dirty enough, although I am not sure I fully agree with Layton it has to be a dirty environement, they can IMO grow in fairly low nutrient environements, as others have stated. But I do miss my refugium, there are other advantages that come with a refugium in the form of the many small life forms that live and breed in it, and get released into the tank & feed the corals. I have seen some lovely tanks where the owner has attributed the very healthy livestock to the natural feeding they get from the refugium.

Guess I should clear up, I answered no to Laytons question because that was not what I meant, I was not even thinking of turf scrubbers I was thinking of refugiums. It has been generally accepted for many years now by most, including Layton, that turf scrubbers are not very effective. Macro algae refugiums however IMO can still be very useful. There is debate over the toxin release argument, but managed properly with only one species of m algae so they are not trying to kill each other, there is little / no harmfull effect. Alternatively, a completely non toxic algae such as chaetomorpha could be used. Bear in mind also that most of what we keep in our tanks release toxins, this is not confined to algae, and is the reason we use carbon. As for me, I don't use m algae, simply because the nutrient levels in my tank are too low to support it. I have had it pre zeovit, but it died when nutrient levels went too low for it.

Feeding it can help. After what it's been through keep portions small. It may not take food at all, if that happens, try a live earthworm, the wriggling stimulates them to grab. But not a whole earthworm, just a bit of one.

No

True Just considering the sensitivities of others who may be lurking :lol:

Should have added that although still widely used overseas, macro algae refugiums are not quite as essential as they once were, with the advance in skimmer technology, and other nutrient control practices and methods.

Here's a little thing about macro algae and refugiums. Better than housing the macro algae in the main tank. The caulerpa mentioned in the article are available here. http://www.3reef.com/refugiums.shtml

Reverse osmosis is a filtration system that you run the tap water through, it will cost $300.00 plus. Alternatively you can use a deionizing filter which would cost somewhere around $100.00 or so. If you do not wish to set one of these up, it would be better to take JDM's advice & get a big bunch of seawater all at once, this would be better than using salt mix, but mixing it with tap water, because the tap water will likely contain more pollutants than the seawater. Only proviso is you collect the water when there is an offshore wind so there are no waves to stir up dirt, and the water is nice and clear. Also our seawater is more salty than on the coral reefs, you dilute it by 10% with fresh water. IE to 20 litres seawater, you add another 2 litres fresh water. However you still have to consider what to do about your top up water, used to replace evaporation. If you keep adding unfiltered tap water, you will get a buildup of phosphate and others which will in a few months cause problems in the tank. BTW, normal household water purifiers do not remove phosphate, it has to be RO, or DI (deionised). It is this type of thing which is why setting up marine always costs more than we at first think. Before getting too discouraged though there is no reason why you cannot get started, then buy a water purifier in a few months time. Sooner the better though.

RO = reverse osmosis. It's just a way of getting some of the nasties we don't want out of the tap water.

BTW, on the subject of water, if you do go with salt mix, you should not mix it with ordinary tap water, as this will contain phosphate. The chlorine is not such a problem as this will evaporate if you let the salt mix for 24 hours or so. You should use RO, or deionised water.

Do you have acces to the sea? A lot of us just use ordinary seawater in our tanks, collected when conditions are good of course. That would save some $$$

Ha Ha, yes that is exactly what happens with my one. I've fragged it a lot because it grows well, if I put it in strong light where the coral goes more green, the polyps go brown. It can also go a bit red, depending on conditions. I've seen some of the pieces I sold in other peoples tanks & there is quite a variety of form/colour, in differing situations. But never any really good colour of the base coral, just some very attractive floro green polyp colour.

Just thought this was interesting, even down to how to frag galaxea. Here is the link http://www.reefs.org/library/farmertodd/

That green polyped sps you said won't get any colour, I THINK it is a humilus, of a type that is naturally brown, but has awesome green polyps. Some of these humilus can colour up to reds, greens, and various shades, but i think yours is the brown one. They are a hardy sps, and a steady grower even in not so good conditions, a nice addition to any tank.