wasp

Excellent idea! I am happy to volunteer my tank for testing by some neutral person.

If you are allowing the halides to supply heating, you must sometimes get a largish temp fluctuation between day and night?

Layton you are brave - but you're off the hook. I have been "unofficially warned" about this, so the Laytons funny bloopers post will not be happening. Reef, that was a very good post. My own thoughts on this are as follows- If Habib says that in his experiment the zeolite leached iron, then I believe him. Where the problem is, is that it has been implied that the water in a zeovit tank will contain hundreds of times more iron than NSW, and this is not the case. Where I see the problem with the experiment is that any product at all, not just zeovit, must be tested when used according to the manufacturers directions. In other words, to see how much iron zeovit rock would leach into a zeovit tank, it must be tested in the manner in which it would be used in a zeovit tank. When used according to instructions, the zeovit rock is placed in a reactor which is then dosed with bacteria. The reactor is also cycled on 3 hours, off 3 hours, to facilitate certain bacteria that outcompete under low aerobic conditions. The zeolite developes a coat of bacterial slime, the effect of which is to produce a microclimate right on the zeolite surface. This will very much effect the what, why, how, and how much, of anything that may leach from the zeovit rock. Of course it is very possible that these bacteria may utilize iron, it would sound like a pretty good plan. But at the end of the day, the water in a zeovit tank does not contain the huge amount of iron that has been implied, so the Habib experiment, while interesting, has not told the whole story, there is more to it.

You did in fact make opposing statements, depending on what you are arguing about. And this has been a pattern of yours for a long time. Would you like me to put up quotes from you, back to back? Bear in mind this will make you look very foolish. -Your call...

. SOME ADJUSTMENT TO THESE "FACTS" REQUIRED :roll: Your fact 1 is a very selective use of "facts". You forgot to mention that this 1998 test was done on a different zeolite than is used today. In other words, your described "fact", is no longer a "fact" The most factual thing in your fact 2 is your words "less sophosticated experiment", a correct assessment. In fact (pun ), the experiment was too far removed from what would happen in an actual real zeovit aquarium, to give results that could be deemed accurate. Hence Habibs refusal to give actual results. Habib is conducting this research for his own business purposes. And to be honest, I find it somewhat unprofessional of him to do this experiment that would not be considered fully valid for the purpose intended in a normal commercial context, and then go on the net making claims as to the results, yet refuse to divulge actual numbers. It is this type of thing that has been going on down the years that has so frustrated the Zeovit manufacturer that he has resorted to threatening legal action on occasion. Although I would presume Habib will be clever enough to know just how far he can push it, hence no exact numbers. Fact 4, Fact 5, and Fact 6 - I will congratulate you, you have backed these claims with a little research.

Yes, I recall you showing me the low temp in your tank when I visited. A few questions, How long do you run your tank for at 22? Any organisms that if kept you would not recomend this? And do you think this may be increasing stress on some organisms, albeit they may survive? It does make sense to run a lower temp in winter provided no harm will result.

When in Melbourne I visited a LFS, which had a very large goniopora, the skeleton was probably 30 cm across. It was for sale for $15.00. It was beginning to die though.

Actually, let's leave this a Goniopora thread. If you want to continue the "does or doesn't iron" thing, perhaps start a new thread Layton. I don't know if I'll join it though, too many vague conclusions thus far, not enough facts, and extremely selective use of the facts presented.

Which one is it then? You shouldn't change your story just depending what you're trying to argue about.

Oh well, sorry for small diversion, I couldn't resist Back to Goniopora......

And hey! that's rich Just a few days ago you were saying the supposed iron in a zeovit system would reduce zoox and thereby bring out the pigments in corals. Now you're saying the opposite :lol: :lol: :lol: Sometimes you are a hoot!!

I've been waiting for you :lol: :lol: :lol:

According to Shimek, the temperature of some reefs he has dived can fluctuate downwards by up to 10 degrees at night (he is talking farenheight). But hey, better safe than sorry, some extra heating capacity may be a cheap investment.

No worries, I only threw the zeovit comment in to get Layton going, (didn't take long!) :lol: , I only said it for a joke. Just some info for you also Layton, a zeovit tank can house cyano bacteria if wanted, high dosing of some of the zeo products can support cyano in a tank. However, what looks like cyano in that pic, could possibly be a bacterial slime that may appear in a zeo tank with heavy dosing of some products, hard to tell just by the pic. I think that other tank that Alois referenced recently was not a zeo tank either. Well if there is an easy to care for strain that is also having babies, then that is the one I should be trying to get. Interesting G. Alexander is not target feeding his one either. That did appear to be what did the trick with the one in that article from Alois. Anybody else out there who has had one for a reasonable time period? This is pretty interesting. May also be of note Alois's cataphylia has also been doing well in the same tank.

Here's an interesting link since we've been discussing Goniopora lately http://zeovit.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2803 Perhaps the husbandary of this species is beginning to come in out of the cold. Of course, to breed them you need one of those piosonous Zeovit systems :lol: :lol: But, jokes aside, pretty interesting, yes? I've always avoided these corals, but may give one a shot!

Wow that table has improved nicely! I'd be interested in your thoughts on what you think you've done / added, or whatever to achieve this.

. AAAARRRGHLAYTON .

Cookie that was an excellent post. With your cooperation Layton I would like to put this circuitous argument to bed. If you cannot, go ahead and do your iron dosing experiment. If you kill everything you will know that is not how zeovit works, you will learn the hard way but don't come running to me to pay for it. And one correction from an earlier post. In fact I did see some very nicely coloured acros in Reefs tank a while back, at a time when he was running a very high phosphate level. He was not running a zeolite system at the time either, so, it can be done - go figure

When it leaches what amount of iron? From what I can understand of what you say, you appear to be saying that a zeovit tank has got 200 times as much iron as NSW, added daily. Of course, your assertion is ludicrous, the water in my tank has nowhere near that amount. That is why there is no way I would pay for your losses if you were intending to dose that amount into a tank for your experiment. It would be stupidity. Conspiracy theories such as the one you propagated a few months back, that the manufacturer was lying about there being bacteria in zeobac. When you were proved wrong, it was predicted at the time that people like you would just jump on the next bandwagon and critisize something else about zeovit. This is exactly what is happening now, with your iron bandwagon. I mean, the phenominal levels of iron you are claiming to be present in a zeo tank, would likely kill everything, and your claim defies common sense. My tank is very much alive. To answer your question on phosphate reduction, refer to your own previous posts, where you have been forced to admit there are bacteria that can bind phosphate. You have in fact already answered your own question. To answer your question on nitrate reduction, refer to other similar posts of your own where you have again answered your own question. To answer your question on coral color despite high nutrients, your question is flawed, I have not seen that I am aware, any spectacularly coloured acros in a high nutrient tank. To answer about occasional coral losses, stupid question, there are a million reasons people can lose corals, as you would know.

What family are they in? Butterfly fish?

Funnily enough Peter, some zeolite and vodka will "do the trick" to a certain extent. The vodka will perform the same function as zeostart, being a carbon source for the bacteria. Costwise though, the vodka will actually cost you more than the zeostart, I know, I've tried it. To do it right though, you must realise that the extra bacteria generated, will not only remove "bad" nutrients, but also "good" ones. These should be replaced, and so there are two zeovit products used, being Zeofood, and ZeoAA (Amino Acids). To give it your best shot, use these products also. But if your goal is simply a roughshod means to reduce nutrients, just vodka alone will do it for you, but in a fairly uncontrolled manner.

As well as the toxin there may (possibly) also be some more nutrients which have come from the dead flatworms, the FW exit itself, or from other organisms that expelled stuff during treatment. But if the corals are alive and polyps out, that's all good, just continue your good husbandry and all will come back on track.

You mean how does the zeovit work? Well as soon as I do that it will just start another big argument, I'd rather refer you back to this article which IMO is a very good explanation of the principles involved http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/cav1i3/ze ... ilters.htm And the author is a neutral person who does not use zeovit. .

Actually I'd agree with you Peter and that did slow me from trying the system. But really, the system is quite well understood, it is just the various "conspiracy theories" around it that keep muddying the waters.

Yes. In fact I don't know why people are trying to catagorise Zeovit as some totally different concept or something. In fact it is based on sound reef keeping principles and good management. Disposal of waste via bacteria, and a whole host of accepted methods, just a different tack at achieving them. Even the use and benefits of iron dosing are becoming more understood these days. The system is becoming more mainstream all the time.