herefishiefishie

Sorry to hear about the fish, Heater. :evil: (one of my 2 main worries in fish keeping.) Good to here about the kindness of others. Frenchy

Sun is great Alan. 8) Mid 20's "again" today, I have water ageing outside, lovely. :lol: Better than grey, rain & cold. Frenchy

From Alan. Thank you Alan, you answered what I said at the start. From me. Which is where this discussion started from. Really, I thought gravity had a constant force? Don't canister filters all have different powered motors? Plus don't forget gravity works down, if I drop a ball it don't bounce back up to the same height.I know standing water gives you a perfect level, we are talking about motion. With a canister filter all the media slows up the flow, sub pump diagrams, have less friction. It is the motor/impellor & gravity that works a canister. Then how come "EHIEM"(ever heard of these guys) stated this, Now this answer was to the question, If I raise my canister off the floor & onto a stand, the canister is still under the tank. Frenchy

The original comment was in reaction to me saying you loose flow in a canister filter with the height pumped up a hose. As does media,bends in pipes.... Others says no it dosen't. Ehiem who makes filters says it does make a difference, by shortening the distance,(hence the shortening of the pipe, never assume) increases the flow. Correct. As have sales reps for companies that make these products. That is the answer to my statement about flow rate. Ira can you now take the arguement up with them thanks. Surely after decades of making them they would know. Now if you look at the diagram, At the sump,(bottom tank) see how the pump pushes the water up, the water flow starts from the top of the sump's water level.(depending on psi's) So water gets pushed up the pipe, once above the sump's water level its adding pressure. So by the time the water has reached the peak of the main/top tank the flow rate is lower. A canister filter, similar in a way, the pump in a canister is at the top of the canister, which is also its highest water level. Head height stated on a canister filter is from the top of the canister. The canisters are set up so the water flows down the canister from the tank. The reason for the water flow in the filter to be from the bottom up is that gravity will always be working to move the heavy particles down or helping to prevent the filter from clogging up. If the filter worked the other way, gravity would work to move the heavy particles deeper into our filter. This usually will result in reducing the water flow through the filter and rendering your filter less than optimal. Not to mention make your pump work harder and reducing its life. Why is the flow rate rated from the top of the unit, because if you fill a canister with water using gravity, the media slows down the flow, have you noticed when filling a canister this way that the water only just fills the canister if that,& dosen't go all the way up the pipe as suggested by others. If others were right why do canister filters then have primeing buttons, or detachments to fill the canister so the impellor can function properly Frenchy

Debate Brad not argue. :roll: I rang up a couple of sales reps to about this too. Both guys been in the industry for years & they said the same thing. Now eheim is the ducks nuts of this industry,(Brad has a canister from ehiem, his uncle used 20 years ago, still works today) I have now gone from I think I know, to really sure. Frenchy

& some chips & salad. Frenchy

Can I debate the likes to think bit. :roll: Frenchy

Don't worry I never give up, :lol: Cheers Ira, the sub pumps are stated from water level too, :oops: silly me. But what manufacters state relies on something called pressure. Which they don't state. :roll: Did you notice that? Firstly; I have noticed at work that different pond filters seemed to pump at different rates yet they have the same filter. :-? So I thought hmm, there must be a reason for this :-? and yep there is. Reasoning; To better understand what factors can affect the pump's flow rate, I first need to introduce the concept of pressure. What I was trying to get across from the start. :roll: Pressure is a force divided by the area that it is applied to, often quoted in pounds per square inch, or psi, for short. Example; A tray filled with a gallon of water an inch deep but 10" wide by 23" long would have a pressure on its bottom of about 0.037 psi (8.5 lbs / (area of tray bottom or 230 square inches). The same amount of water, but in a tube whose cross-sectional area is one square inch but 230" tall, would have a pressure of 8.5 psi on the bottom of the tube (8.5 lbs / 1 square inch). The reason for the different pressures, even though the weight of the water is the same in both cases, is that the weight is supported by a large area in the first example and so the force on any small section is low. But, in the second example, all the water's weight is supported by a small area and so its effective pressure is correspondingly higher. So please note, Fact; Consequently, the maximum head or water column height that a pump can support is really a measure of the maximum water pressure that a pump can produce. (so really its from the pump not water level) How this relates to canisters? Ira's link does state it is the impellor that moves the water. And height is one factor that effects the flow. With a canister filter the effective pumping height/flow rate as shown is measured from the water level in the canister filter,(the actual head of a pump is determined by the highest water level in the canister.) I give up.... Frenchy

I was at dinner with a couple of fish people, we had a chat about this & yes views were split & varied :lol: Been a great topic, now I have a few more people on a mission. :lol: 2 things that weren't answered by either side, one question lead to the other, (a) If it is only circulating water, why is an impellor on a canister filter about the same size as an internal/submersible filter, when comparing lph. eg; When my jebo canister impellor shaft broke, an internal filter from a different brand, same lph fitted perfectly. :-? when (b)Head height on a submersible pump is from the pump not the top of the water, why is then different in canister filters as stated by Ira? I am yet to see anyone give me a link or prove that either way is right. I just would like to know for sure, Either way. I don't mind being wrong as long as I "know." Good on one of my primary school teacher's for saying question everything. :roll: Frenchy

Yes the water level trick is used in landscaping to check levels over a greater distance. Done this myself. But the water level has nothing to do with a filter pumping water. Remember the water dosen't move until the filter is turned on. The impeller sucks the water into the canister,(like I said before not gravity) which travels through all the media & is the pressure of the impelleor not gravity pushes the water up the hose. :lol: Frenchy

Depends on the mbuna. Yellows are a mbuna & are very peaceful. I wouldn't get the zebras,(pseud) what type of zeb they are first. Kenyi/ called lombardoi's here are agro buggers when bigger.(males especially) A 10cm kenyi at Brads house rules over a 30cm fronnie. Female convicts are the nicest in my opinion as they get the orange flashes. Peacocks will get beaten up by the kenyi, yellows may later on too get picked on by kenyi. Peacocks will good with yellows, I have this with no dramas, donr this many a time. Peacocks adapt easily too a diet of vegie flakes & mysis shrimp. (The home brew will suit all africans.) Frenchy

Can anyone answer this question for me. (quote) Also, Why do brands of canisters have max head height? :-? Frenchy

Yep heads & all. Blend it real good. You have a pm. Frenchy

Hmmmm, I thought the canister filter draws the water out of the tank(not gravity) & then the pressure pushes the water up the outlet into the tank. I thought this pressure would be greater over a distance upwards, hence slowing the flow. I would like for someone to show me how this is different. I mean this nicely, as I am keen to know one way or another. From Ehiem, reccomended distance from the bottom of filter, to top of tank, for proper function of filter 2227/2229. Frenchy

Hmmm, basically nothing, unless you only want to have one convict. Convicts pair up very easy & will defend a good amount of space. Another problem is they tend to move the fry around the tank too. :roll: Frenchy

{Justin rolls around on the floor in fits of laughter} Is this the same Brad we are talking about???? :lol: Frenchy

I can't say that I have heard that one before. Yellows work best in colonies,(the more the merrier) so yes try & find more females. I had a colony of 20 Yellows, ratio? Bought mainly privately. Now downsized colony to 8, have bred a few times. $15 in shops here. What is wrong with stripping females, I do this at 2 weeks. This way the fry are free swimming & that way the female dosen't lose to much condition either. Some breeders strip at day dot, & tumble the eggs in a strainer, till they are free swimming. Frenchy

Never have a problem myself, no brown algae either. I use Calcium Carb in the substarct, most tanks have shells too,(breeding & decoration) I use a buffer every now & then too. So touch wood haven't ever had to worry about dropping ph. If your tank is well cycled & water changes are kept up, then ammonia should never be a worry. Yes small water changes are best for Tangy's, to much new water upsets them. Alto's(comps & calvus) too. I personally go for about 15 to 20% every week or two & I airate the new water for a day or two in a drum, add a bit of salt...so when I add water to the tanks its similar to the tanks conditions. Frenchy

Not much of a list. Then again here in aussie its not that great either. Then again plenty of people here try the old smuggle routine. The thing with NZ is the water is bloody cold, I don't think cichlids would survive there. Brrrrrrr cold.....and they allow plenty of species that could be a threat, please explain. :lol: A lady was caught at Sydney airport a couple of months ago with a home made appron with pouches under her clothes. These were full of fish in bags. Then this. http://www.customs.gov.au/site/page.cfm?c=6041 Frenchy

or an internal power filter will help. Frenchy

I'd still get your water tested, I'd say the snails are dying because of the water quality. Frenchy

Yep your right in saying to early to be bacterial bloom. I should of read his post at the start better. Have seen bacterial bloom nearly day dot before when people do the cheat(old filters, gravel...) & a heap of fish with a new tank. Also a high level of dissolved constituents such as phosphates, silicates, or heavy metals will give cloudy water. But all have pretty much the same solution. Frenchy

Don't know BK but i found this, http://wildlife.state.co.us/aquatic/whirling/brown%20trout%20with%20signs6.jpg Frenchy

Fresh will be better. or make sure it was snap frozen on the boat. To hold the goodies in. Frenchy

I use internal filters. In larger tanks they are good to add circulation, when used with cannisters, sumps..... I use these on there own or conjunction with hang on filters in smaller tanks. Try & find internals that come with coarse foam rather than the finer mesh...(better to grow bacteria on & won't clog up as quick.) I use Sonpar's, they have seperate compartments, I have foam in a couple of compartments & one with matrix or some other filter/bacteria growing type substance. Looking at the pic on Trademe, the only difference to the sonpars is the power head & packaging. Frenchy