Jennifer

Don't take my word for it. Research some aqueous chemistry and have a look about what Tom Barr says. The evidence is out there.

Whoa! That's superb growth for only being set up for three weeks. Well done. Dropping off iron soon...

Surface agitation is important for a number of reasons and it will only result in a small loss of dissolved CO2 from the water column. Depending on the biological system, CO2 can be nearly 100 times more soluble in water than O2 is. For low tech tanks surface agitation is a benefit because atmospheric CO2 helps create a constant CO2 level in the tank. Similarly, when you do a water change, the surface area of the water flowing in a thin stream results in high levels of dissolved CO2, hence why almost everyone will have pearling plants when they do a water change. Now, considering that O2 is not very soluble, it is easy to see why bubblers do little for dissolving O2, instead, what they do is increase the surface area of the water so that the water is exposed to more atmospheric gas and O2 can dissolve into the water. A duckbill or spray bar aimed at the surface works just as well for increasing turnover of surface water and it doesn't even have to break the surface (although this helps to remove biofilm). One important point, O2 does not displace CO2 in the water column - if the oxygen levels of the water are high, the fish can withstand very high levels of CO2. The challenge is to get high levels of O2 dissolved in the water - pearling plants are great for this and can create a higher level of dissolved O2 than in our immediate atmosphere (however, bigger bubbles that rise to the surface are not dissolving). In short, get your surface ripple on! It will not only help distribute nutrients to the plants to increase pearling, it will help dissolve more oxygen into the water through surface gas exchange.

No need to complicate matters. I wouldn't even worry about fish gasping at the surface with a tank that size (as long as it is wide and not abnormally tall ); in my experience, that usually only happens when the water gets very warm or when the tank is highly stocked. Contrary to myth, it is just fine to have good surface agitation when you use CO2, you may have to add a little bit more CO2 to account for the loss, but it is no problem at all so add an air pump if you like, but I don't think it will be needed. The biggest thing to think about is water flow. For that size tank, I personally would spend just a bit more and get a bigger CO2 setup (cylinder and regulator), you won't be sorry and it is very affordable to maintain.

Hmm, mine looks exactly like this: From here: http://plantgeek.net/plant-187.htm

:lol: Is it still going well? If so, do you have any recent pics? I really find that it can be difficult, especially when the temp climbs but it is good to know it is readily available.

Pic?

Thanks guys. The balansae was not doing well as the tank got more acidic from the increasing CO2 so I pulled it out and now have barclaya in its place which is proving to be quite the weed. Pups anyone? Yeah, it doesn't like anything much over 25 degrees but this week the tank has been up at 30 for most of the week. I could have turned off the lights to cool it down but I didn't want the crypts to melt again. :roll: I will be so sad if I loose my glandulosa...I never see it around here... &c:ry

No, that isn't the one we were talking about. This one has very dark green leaves with burgundy tips. One of my all time favourite plants but I think the hot weather this week is killing it.

Oh well, it looks cute so I don't really care. :happy2: But I am sure once the martini wears off I will feel the responsibility and think about growing it emersed so it can flower... :oops:

A tiny splash of ammonia will start it off.

Bob Ward told me it was Mayaca, so I believed him, but yes, I am hoping to start it emersed (or give it to Alan who is an expert at emersed plants). Between the R. macrandra and L. repens. :oops:

Yes, it is in there with 5 new leaves but it lost the leaf it had when you sent it. :-? Here you go Joe. Anubias barteri v. barteri Anubias barteri v. 'nana' Anubias barteri v. 'nana golden' Anubias barteri v. nana 'petite' Anubias barteri v. 'marble' Anubias minima 'marble' Anubias afzelli Bolbitis heudelotti Cryptocoryne wendtii de witt 'Red' Cryptocoryne walkerii Cryptocoryne cordata Cryptocoryne retrospiralis Cryptocoryne cordata 'blassei' Echinodorus x. 'Red Special' Echinodorus x. 'Red Rose' Echinodorus x. 'Ozelot' Echinodorus x. 'Leopard' Echinodorus x. 'Horemani' Echinodorus x. 'Parviflorus' Ludwigia arcuata Ludwigia glandulosa Ludwigia repens Rotala macrandra Microsorum pteropus v.'Windeløv' Microsorum pteropus v. 'narrow leaf' Nymphaea lotus 'Zenkeri red' Mayaca fluviatilis (red pine) Vesicularia montagnei Barclaya longifolia 'green' Barclaya longifolia 'red'

Awww, he loves it when you exhibit work avoidance behaviour. :lol: :happy2:

If you want a tank like P44, get some powerglo T5 tubes, CO2 and good filtration/circulation. If you don't have the money for Powerglos, then get as much light as you can. No doubt about it, this is a high tech tank. Starting out can be a mission so it is important to go slow. As an example, I just posted some update photos of my tank for you here. Note how early on the total plant boimass was very low so they will not be using many nutrients at all. When it was first up, I only had half the lights on for 4 hours a day. Now I have eight powerglo tubes on for 8 hours a day and have to fertilise almost every day or I get green dust algae but they pearl all day long and the plant growth is impressive. The point is, do things gradually and you won't have a problem at all. Start out just with Flourish comprehensive a couple of times a week and only have the lights on for a handful of hours a day. Then as the plants start to grow, increase the nutrients, including NPK and slowly increase the lighting period. if you see any sign of algae, decrease the light and add more ferts. Keep up the CO2 all the while (it can be relatively high since there won't be any fish in there for a while). There are some overseas but there are so many variables that it hasn't worked well. Perhaps its a new project you should work on. You can use Excel and CO2 but it isn't really necessary. I do find that Excel sometimes really helps the plants to get a foothold but later on I think CO2 gas (e.g. via DIY CO2) is much more effective and cheaper/easier in the long run.

After a majo2 setback from the quake, things are starting to come back now.

Glad she has recovered a bit. It still is a bit of a guessing game as to the cause of her problems though. These guys can get excessively high calcium blood levels, D3 toxicity and fatty liver disease as a result of not eating (usually as a result of early kidney disease). It is all rather complicated. In general, I would say if you caught it early then even if she has some kind of organ failure you may be able to turn it around. The fact that she produced some urates is a good sign that her liver is able to produce uric acid and that her kidneys are working to excrete it. No doubt about it, husbandry plays an important role. These guys are used to getting lots of exercise and that is very important in preventing obesity which can predispose them to fatty liver disease. Aside from taking her to the vet for tests, my advice would be the following: 1. Aim to keep her well hydrated by baths and moist food. Weigh her daily with an accurate gram scale so you can determine if she is getting dehydrated (1 gram weigh loss = 1ml of water loss). 2. Feed a lower protein diet. This will be a challenge because you don't want to feed high fat and contribute to obesity however, protein metabolites are 'processed' by the kidneys and we want to minimise kidney insults so aim to feed only the highest quality protein such as pinkies, fuzzies or crews. If you do feed insects/worms, feed a very wide variety and avoid locusts as they are very high protein. Also, ensure your insects are newly molted and gut loaded with vegetables so that you get the most nutritional value and do not risk intestinal impaction from the hard exoskeletons. In general, aim to feed mostly young mice as these have the very best nutritional profile. 3. Ensure you feed around 20% vegetable matter including a variety of chopped vegetables and fruits (e.g. pumpkin, green beans, carrots, silver beet, parsley, dandelion berries and dark fleshy fruits). 4. Let her exercise as much as possible (yes, encourage her to go jogging) and do not let her go without eating for more than a day.

Agreed with all of what fordayzbro said above. Just a couple other things: 1. To deal with the tiger lotus, just trim off the big leaves as they get too large. This will encourage it to stay compact and will help prevent it from taking over. 2. If the CO2 tabs are working, then you could consider sticking with them. I am not familiar with them or the dosage but just aim to keep things at a constant level. Alternatively, your size tank would do quite well with DIY CO2, it is actually quite easy and very effective and you don't really need to change it more than once a month or so. 3. Make sure the sword plants are placed in bright light areas and that they have root balls (they are heavy root feeders). The crypts will mostly be happy whether they are in the open or in the shade of the other big plants. 4. The fact that your tiger lotus is growing indicates that you have some nutrients there already - probably from the substrate/root balls and possibly also by the fairly decent stocking level (including the snails); this might be producing quite a bit of nitrate already. I would try testing the nitrates before adding any just so you have something to compare to when you dose. 5. Go ahead and use the Flourish comprehensive if you have it already. This will deal with the deficiencies. It is a great product, I prefer it to any other trace mix. You will just need to add the NPK on top of that but the size of your tank means that it shouldn't cost too much regardless of whether you get dry ferts or the premixed versions from the LFS. 6. Remember, to keep a low maintenance tank, keep the photoperiod reduced. Then you will also have a reduced need to dose so often with ferts.

The difference between 10ppm and 20ppm is small and it is well below the level at which fish will be affected. Seachem Flourish makes a liquid Nitrogen, Potassium and Phosphate. Since you just have a small tank, that might be one option for you to accurately dose your tank. I do wonder if your plants aren't able to use the available ferts fast enough. Many of the plant gurus say that one of the biggest problems is not having the plant biomass to combat algae, that is why stem plants can be good - because they grow quickly so algae can't.

Fair enough. Just remember that it was when you added hydrogen peroxide to eradicate the algae that the fish died; it wasn't fertilisers that caused any problems, in fact, it was when you started adding ferts that the algae finally stayed away. It is always better to treat the cause than just the symptom...well, for that matter, prevention is better than a cure! The Flourish comprehensive has a good profile of micros and macros but alone it will not provide enough macros to support optimal growth in a high tech tank. Your tanks are always lovely, imagine if they were the best they could be.

Oh, he's turned out lovely Dan. Here are a couple of his brothers.

No it's definitely not broken, but go back and review your tank from 4-6 months ago and see how it is improving. Four months ago you had zero nitrates, some algae and some signs of deficiencies. From this thread. Now things are so much better, don't you think? If nutrients are optimised, just imagine what you could accomplish. So, a couple of questions come to mind, where are the nitrates coming from? It doesn't matter too much but it would be helpful to know just so you can adjust nitrate dosages accordingly. If you aren't adding any, I would suspect it is from the increased stocking levels and feeding. It would be good to check the nitrates over the course of the day to ensure they don't dip to nil. Someone yesterday just told me that they did a water change, added nitrate and tested at the end of the day to find that all the nitrates were used up already. A good thing to know so doses can be adjusted to suit the needs of the tank.

That is exactly right. You might consider increasing the nitrates to 20ppm and test it after a week to see where you are at, you may need to dose weekly. try not to change anything else until you see if that works or not.

With any respiratory distress, regardless of the cause, O2 (oxygen) is an important supportive treatment. In this case, the burned gills will be less efficient from overproduction of protective mucous so the surface area for gas exchange is minimised, thus you want water with a higher percentage of oxygen to be flowing over the available surfaces in the gills so that the fish can get enough oxygen.

Agreed. Theoretically, you can add more nutrients to accommodate the increased photoperiod but the plants won't necessarily do any better. In fact, some plants, like ambulia, have an internal clock and will actually shut down/close up after a certain time in the light. An 8 hour photoperiod should be just fine to start with. In fact, in optimal conditions, the plants will grow like wild in only a handful of hours a day. I have an 8 hour photoperiod on my big tank and still sometimes get green dust algae if I forget to dose for one day! The problem is easily solved by scraping it off the glass and getting back to the fert schedule. If you are getting pearling, I would guess that your lighting is sufficient and you have a good amount of CO2. You don't really need to add liquid carbon unless your CO2 is fluctuating. With regard to the dosing, PMDD is a combination of macros and micros. You can check to see if you are reaching optimal levels by checking nitrates and phosphates with a test kit. A CO2 drop checker is a good thing to have as well to see if you are reaching optimal levels (although don't count on it in terms of safety for the livestock since the changes are too slow to show up a sudden crisis). Tom Barr is a big lover of low tech tanks. They are easy to run with the EI method. The lowest tech tanks are as follows: Infrequent dosing, low light, low stocking, rare water changes, no carbon supplement. The theory is to provide just enough nutrients for the tank to use up in a week or so. Water changes should be small and infrequent so that CO2 fluctuations are minimal. If you get algae, turn down the lights/photoperiod. Test the nitrates/phosphates periodically to see if the plants are using it up as planned If you take one step up and add a stronger light and carbon supplement and you will see the growth increasing so you need to dose more frequently and do regular water changes.