David R

I was wondering that too, Geoff have you spawned any of your first generation of young to see if the "broken wing" deformity is passed on?

Yep, there's one about a metre long in the duck pond at Singapore gardens!! Has the be the nicest looking big silver I've ever seen.

Shouldn't you have been asking that question BEFORE buying the UV filter?

Always happens when you least expect it!! :thup:

I would have put the media from the internals into the sump, then maybe put more new media into the externals and keep running them on the established tank.

Yes they aren't predatory by nature, but there are always exceptions to the rule. It depends how hungry they are too, a few days of starvation can make smaller tankmates that were previously fine start looking like potential food.

The tetras might be faster than a ram and less likely to be eaten? Then again someone of MFK put up a pic of one of their large (20cm+) alrifrons that had choked on a small-ish barb (golden, IIRC), so I'm not sure if I'd count on it.

Don't you already have a tank running somewhere? Aren't you able to use existing media, filters and water to give it a kick start?

A guppy would eat a shark if its mouth was big enough...

Looking at the size of my geos I think they'd scoff down a slim tetra like a neon/cardinal no worries. High bodied ones like lemons, rosys etc might be a better bet.

At every LFS I visited in Singapore I saw bags of little bullfrogs (presumably for feeders, unless keeping bullfrog community tanks with 20+ is really popular? :lol: ). Could be high in protein, could also be high in fat? At the size of the aro in the pics they do tend to be growing pretty quickly, the increase in bulk could be attributed to many factors, not just food. Kids often have growth spurts and its not because of a change in diet. Thats not to say bullfrogs aren't good for encouraging growth either. I'd be reluctant to feed them as a staple food though, unless they were gut-loaded with something more nutritionally balanced.

I tried uploading the 8mp originals but it wouldn't let me for some reason! I'll have a look thru the pics of the reptiles and insects at the Berlin Aquarium and put some up tonight. They had a big display of weaver ants confined only by a small pond around the tree they were on, was pretty cool to see.

Thanks, it sure was an eye opener. Ally I agree, Clementi makes HFF look like a spacious boutique store! I'd miss it too, but with the house prices over there it would make it difficult to get a place big enough to house a tank big enough to keep all the great species available. It helps that Hannah is kinda interested too. It wasn't actually that much time out of the trip, despite the huge quantity of pics I took! A couple of morning trips in the UK, about 4 hours in Berlin (hotel was 5 minutes walk down the road), and about half a day in Singapore. Had about half a dozen more shops on the list to visit in Singapore but they were too far away and we were running out of time...

I've recently returned from a 4 week jaunt around the UK and Europe with a quick stop in Singapore on the way home so I thought I'd share some of the various fish-related pics I took. If anyone is interested in seeing the non-fish pics they can look for me on the FNZAS Facebook page and there you should be able to see the selection of pics I have uploaded there. First stop was Richard AKA T1KARMANN from MonsterFishKeepers, I've been following the build of his 1000g tank since it started and as soon as I knew we were going to the UK I made it a priority to visit him. He also used to have the largest group of Uaru fernandezyepezi in the UK (14 adults!) so I was interested to pick his brains about one of my favourite species I'll never get to keep. For anyone interested, here is a link to his 1000g build thread, its been running for about a year now with the current stock. Tank is 8'x6'x3' to give you an idea of the size of the fish. 30" super red aro Massive Siamese Tiger (not to be confused with the more common indo's we get here), close to 2' long, super tall and fat. Biggest P14 ray, disc close to 2' diameter, just gave birth to 5 pups yesterday. Same ray, going top to bottom on a 3' tall tank. I've also got a couple of videos of me feeding them which I might upload later. After London we went to Berlin for a few days, and on the third day we went to the Berlin Aquarium. Well worth the visit and highly recommended to anyone over that way, had a big range of aquariums on the ground floor, a huge selection of reptiles and amphibians on the second floor, and a heap of freaky insects on the third floor. Can put up more pics if people are interested. Entrance. Hannah with a big planted tank full of the biggest congo tetras I've ever seen. South American tank with rays, geophagus, a school of Hydrolycus scomberoides, catfish and others. Another South American tank, with [true] Altum Angels, dwarf knife fish, massive (by Apisto standards) A. hongsloi, various whiptails and plecs. Another South American, this one with wild discus, P. leopoldi, huge school of cardinals and penguins, whiptails, hundreds of cories, other plecs etc. Madagascan cichlids, still pretty rare in the hobby. At the end of the corridor in the first pic there is a big salt water tank in the middle and 5 of the large opened topped tanks around the outside, one with reef fish, one brackish, one SA with smaller fish like silver aros, armartus, peacock bass, piranha, silver dollars, another SA with an arapaima, pacus, rtc etc, and an asian one with monster pangasius catfish, giant gouramis, barbs, fly river turtles, green aros, and snakeheads. (no Hannah isn't looking fir Kyle, I told her to hold her arm out to give an idea of the size of the aro) Arapaima was about 6-7' Massive Niger catfish, huge spines down the side Albino shark thing in the salt tank Can't remember the name of it :oops: We spent a few more days in Munich and Bavaria, then met my parents for a 7 night cruise around Turkey and the Greek Islands (was supposed to be going to Jerusalem and Egypt but Ghaddafi put a stop to that) and spent 3 days on Crete and a day in Athens, and then had a two day stop over in Singapore on the way home. The first day we went to the Botanic Gardens where I spent more time looking at the fish in the ponds than the plants, then the following day we went to the zoo and some fish shops. Mayan cichlid in the pond in the gardens. Midas/red devil pair guarding fry in a cave. There were big schools of midas/devils in the main pond, it was interesting to see the varying shapes and colours, they ranged from almost white to deep red, but most were yellowish, and there were a couple of really short bodied ones that nearly looked like they could have a bit of parrot fish in them. The dark ones are either mayans or flowerhorn type things. The nicest silver aro I have ever seen, no drop eye, no PLJ, about a metre long and solid, PERFECT! Snakeheads with fry. Catfish, you couldn't even see them until one of the locals chucked in some bread for them, then they would swarm to the surface in a feeding frenzy. Casual school of over 12 asian aros in the pond around the orang-utans at the zoo. I spotted reds, rtg, yellow tail and green. Nice RTG, can't beat the natural sunlight for colouring fish up. I visited one Maidenhead Aquatics in Wembley, a random shop in Munich, and a couple of different shops in Singapore. I was quite impressed with Maidenhead, they had a good range of fish and gear, 4 big display tanks (including one with a SR aro and rays, and another with 5 fly river turtles) and a huge indoor koi pond. They also had several notices up about only selling large fish to appropriate homes. The shop in Germany was small but well stocked, lots of planted tanks and gear for them. All the display tanks had plants, and had a big selection of plecs (with L numbers) and apistos. The shops in Singapore were chaotic but awesome. Those who were freaking out about the tanks in the "fish tank cruelty" thread would be advised to stay away, as would anyone with claustrophobia! The first one was Clementi Florist and Aquarium (no idea where the florist bit was!), the dry stock was stacked out onto the footpath under an awning, the aisles weren't wide enough for two people to pass in, the tanks were tiny and really heavily stocked but all the fish were healthy and good looking and I didn't see a single dead fish. They had at least 20 asian aros in stock, RTG's for about $350SD, reds, xb's violet fusion etc. Even the VF's were kept four to a small tank. Had a couple of tanks of rays and a large number of plecs of all different sizes. I was blown away by the range and prices, if only houses weren't so expensive there! The second shop, AquaHobby, was a bit smaller and less hectic, and owned and run by a guy from MFK. They had a good selection bichirs including several larger wild caught ones, a big couple of big laps, ansorgii and a ~12" P. bichir bichir (super rare and only recently becoming more available). Here's some pics of his stock, the L134's were gorgeous! Both shops are only a short distance from the MRT, if anyone is travelling and finds themselves with a spare afternoon in Singapore I'd recommend checking them out.

Anything except the Asian Scleropages species.

I disagree, I think blacks would be the most worth while. You'll never compete with a quality farm with a good reputation breeding high end asian aros. I'm not sure what (if anything?) they do to protect their strains, but there are all sorts of rumours about them sterilising young etc, and the initial outlay would be huge. Blacks seem to be in high demand all over the world, don't have the CITES headaches for shipping/selling that the asians do, and the initial outlay for fish would be much less. I reckon a Para Pool in an insulated and heated garage (with a good cover obviously) would be a good and cheap start for breeding any aro, if someone was really keen to give it a go...

Best suggestion is to figure out what you find most attractive and go for that!! Some people would say marine/reef is most attractive because of the colour (also most expensive), some would say a planted tank is attractive, or others might find a single large cichlid with character and attitude attractive. Its really up to you to decide, start browsing different websites and think about what you most like the look of, then decide if you're willing to put in the work and money to set it up and maintain it.

I've heard of it being included in peoples recipes for fish food, I doubt it would do any harm, but I'm not sure there would be any additional benefit of feeding them either.

+1 for the meths or Mr Muscle on paper towel (or toilet paper) method.

With the exception of the last pic [which is fake] it doesn't look [to me anyway] like the fish are in too small a tank, there is just too many of them (for some people). I would never advocate keeping a fish in a tank not large enough for it to comfortably live, but thats not what this discussion is about.

So at what point does it actually become a problem?

Speaking of speculation? You're right, I know nothing of those actual fish/tanks in the pictures, but I do know of many examples of such tanks from other websites where large fish are kept in heavily stocked tanks but with appropriately large water changes and filtration, here's a good example: http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?398169 I don't think these tanks (certainly not the ones I know of) are kept by people who are just starting out in the hobby. As I said earlier, there is a big difference between a noob keeping 4 adult oscars in a 3' tank and somebody experienced keeping a heavily stocked tank. Before I try to "defend" it, can you please define "overstocking" in a quantifiable measure? Obviously there is something other than water quality and fish health that defines it, is it just a visual thing where you look at a tank and "feel" that it is overstocked, or are we still hung up on the old 'one inch per gallon' rule?

Exactly, trying to claim that fish shouldn't be kept like that because of problems with water quality is absolute nonsense if you know nothing about the water quality, filtration and water change regime. GZ_Loach if you don't like fish being kept in that way then thats your opinion and its fine. Don't try to justify it as morally wrong for everyone though by using silly analogies and imaginary water problems.

Gladly, so long as someone else is being the financier!!

:facepalm: Isn't it the same for all fish tanks? If the filtration and water change schedule match the waste produced by the fish then whats the difference? Fish brush up against each other all the time in nature, 95% of aquariums are more heavily stocked than the average stretch of river or lake, so where do you draw the line? I've seen some pretty heavily stocked african cichlid tanks, would they be generating the same kind of response as these "jdm" tanks given that its pretty much standard practice to over-crowd mbuna tanks?