i just notes 7 or 8 of my killies fry got bent backs (spines) is this some thing ive dun or ?? and is there some way to fixs it

Lost my connection, so hence double post.

Hi BG,

Bent spines in some fish are generally caused by too much interbreeding, which is the repeated breeding of fish from the same families over a period of time without the introduction of a new bloodline,... or through hereditary genetic disorders in the gene pool that the parents hold... and so pass onto the offspring.

Other causes could be very poor water conditions, which have not allowed the fish to develop correctly.

Other possible causes..

Tuberculosis,... ?

Vitamin Deficiency

This can also cause abnormalities similar to TB and Genetic defects. Lack of Calcium and Vitamin C are the two main culprits, resulting in bent spine and abnormally small fish.

There is no way that I know to fix a fish that has this complaint, and they are best destroyed to avoid further breeding and adding more defective fish into the hobby.

If the problem is not apparently visible in the parents, then try breeding each adult with a different partner and observe the results.

This will tell you if one or the other adult is the problem.

HTH

This happens very often with killies as it is hard to find another bloodline. Finding another bloodline of a rare killie in NZ would be hard so you keep your lines pure. So far all of my N. Rachovii fry look good. But my mate has about 20 swordtails with bent backs

Why the prob in bloodlines??

That is rubbish

Do the fish in the wild go find another water-hole??

I don't think so.

Alan 104

No disrespect Alan... but breeding fish in captivity is FAR different from them breeding in a natural environment that they originated from, and even THEN.. defects occur in the wild.

Breeders of fish worldwide have allowed defects to creep into strains.. often by trying to produce a "better" strain of fish, but invariably produce something with an "unseen" defect that often shows up after several broods.

Killies are no different, and they too can carry defective genes that will produce poor quality fish and result in anything from poor colour, to body defects as above. Often these "would be" breeders allow the defects to be released into the mainstream hobby, with disasterous results, and I would have thought that holding the position you do, you would have given a better answer than this...

Why the prob in bloodlines??

That is rubbish

Do the fish in the wild go find another water-hole??

I don't think so.

Perhaps "your" explanation of why the fish have bent spines may be more enlightening to BG than the other explanations were.

Regards,

Bill.

Your reply earlier Bill was enlightening to be near enuff without adding to it.

I was pointing out to another that we, as do the ponds, have not got much choice.

Except to not breed with any deformities that show up.

Alan 104

ty for the help ive now taken out 8 bent killies and have them in a breeder trap not sure y there r in there but there r ok ok ok they r in there becoues i just can not do it (cull them that is ) .

You've got an oscar, throw them in with him.

Not sure if that is a good idea Ira. If the bending is due to some kind of disease (e.g. TB) rather than a genetic problem, the disease may pass on to the Oscar if he eats them. Personally I wouldn't risk feeding them to the Oscar.

Pegasus said...

> Killies are no different, and they too can carry defective

> genes that will produce poor quality fish...

Except killies (especially those in captivity) are very close to being

clones (ie, are genetically very similar). In my experience good

fish rarely have bad young. Most deformities are due to less than

perfect fry raising conditions (sub-optimal food or water conditions).

Dodgy fry should be disposed of, you're not doing anyone any favours

by allowing bad fish to grow up.

Andrew.

AJ said:

Except killies (especially those in captivity) are very close to being

clones (ie, are genetically very similar). In my experience good

fish rarely have bad young.

It would be 'really' nice to think that at least 'one' species of fish has not been affected by the intervention of captivity, but I would doubt this very much.

True.. good fish with good bloodlines will invariably produce good offspring, but there are exceptions, and IMO Killies are no different.

Most deformities are due to less than

perfect fry raising conditions (sub-optimal food or water conditions).

As above in my post..

Dodgy fry should be disposed of, you're not doing anyone any favours

by allowing bad fish to grow up.

As above in my post, and my feelings exactly.

Bill.

Pegasus said...

> It would be 'really' nice to think that at least 'one' species of

> fish has not been affected by the intervention of captivity, but

> I would doubt this very much. True.. good fish with good

> bloodlines will invariably produce good offspring, but there are

> exceptions, and IMO Killies are no different.

The nature of killiefish is, though, that many come from seriously

fractured habitats and due to the small gene pool available in a small

pool in the wild they can be almost clonal. This is not the same as

a tetra from (say) the Amazon where there are many options for

genetic exchange. A successful clone (as many killies are) require

that any lethal genes are long gone. This carries over into captive

fish, meaning killies are somewhat less prone to interbreeding problems

than many other fish. They really are different.

Andrew.