Charles Posted August 19, 2003 Report Share Posted August 19, 2003 Dear me, You spend 30 years studying fish, you got a few degrees and spenT 18 years as a fisheries scientist and the past 10 as a fisheries consultant. You work out how to keep native freshwater fish alive and breed them in bulk. And then you realise what a waste of time and money it all was. I posted banded kokopu for sale, a category C endangered native fish found nowhere else in the world. Aquarium keepers in New Zealand have a very bad track record for conservation. We are responsible for koi carp in the wild and a releasing a staggering array of noxious aquatic plants that cost the country millions of dollars a year to control. I thought that keeping native fish could be a way of moving past this fixation on exotics to stuff that is really rare worldwide, ie our native fish. we can supply captive reared specimens that are disease free and trained to eat artificial foods, so that it is a lot easier to keep them then the hard learning curves that I have had. But nah. interest evaporated instantly when I asked for $10 for mediums and $15 for large. Then I read postings about tropical marine setups that consume 2 Kw of power and cost $6000 to set up. Even relatively cheap tropical marines come by poisoning reefs and aquarists resist paying the real cost of producing healthy captive bred fish. No relativity here. I see a toplit NZ rainforest tank with elegant black tree roots and water golden with tannins. The bottom is river shingle with some beach shell, because this is a pool in lowland puriri forest, by the coast. Dark green liverworts grow over the stones and dozens of elegant freshwater shrimps pick their way through the drifts of characean algae that form a bright green backdrop in the open areas. And by the logs drift a couple of 150 mm banded kokopu, like miniature pike, waiting for a bug to be dropped in. This scenario only happens in a few streams now, only on a couple of minute islands in the middle of nowhere. But it is not exotic enough for us. So it seems to have been another great idea gone phut in Rodger Douglas land. Charles the total lack of interets Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aqua Posted August 19, 2003 Report Share Posted August 19, 2003 harsh.... but understandable! if you want reasons (excuses, if you will): for myself, I already have a four foot aquarium in my living room, I have no financial means or even physical room to sustain another tank, even if it is only coldwater - esp as you stated earlier that they would not be comfortable above 22ºC (25ºC being "extreme") and where I currently live, that sort of temperature is going to be remarkably difficult to attain! My tank at present is set at 23º, and yet it has never gone below 25º! So, unless I can afford a chiller unit, I can't afford this. Maybe, sometime in the future, if my present tank carks it, or I find somewhere else to live with more room, I would definatly think about helping to sustain an endangered species - what bigger thrill than to help bring a species back from the brink of being lost???? All I'm saying is that it's fine for you to vent, but don't automatically assume that because you have had a low level of interest, it doesn't mean that we're not interested, it may possibly be (certainly in my case) that it's not a feasible option at present. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caryl Posted August 19, 2003 Report Share Posted August 19, 2003 I agree with aqua. I too do not have the space for the required tank - as lovely as it sounds. Keeping the required temperature is also beyond me as our room sits at 27 - 32C all through summer and the price of the chiller units, not the fish, is what stops me. There is no lack of interest, only means. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goldie Posted August 20, 2003 Report Share Posted August 20, 2003 I am in the perfect climate for such fish. Tell me more please. What size do they grow to?? What would be the requirements to keeping them in fishy luxery?? I am the sort of person who likes to know and plan rather then get a 'cute' fish or even 'correct' fish and find I am unintentionally being cruel. What does a banded kokopu look like?? Can you post a pic or two of the native fish you have?? The idea just never occured to me before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caryl Posted August 20, 2003 Report Share Posted August 20, 2003 Goldie look at Trade and Exchange under Native Trout. All the info and pic links are there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted August 20, 2003 Report Share Posted August 20, 2003 If it makes you feel better, Charles, I'd be eager to have some, except I'm in basically the same situation as Aqua. I don't have a coldwater tank or the room or money for one. If you thought they'd handle warmer water, say up around 24°, I might be interested in dropping the temperature of one of my tropical tanks a bit. A tank with a couple of them and a few ummm...Bullies? would be great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Posted August 20, 2003 Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2003 Oh, I am a little bit guilty now that some of you good folks have explained the reality of your situations. At the moment I am running 15 aquariums, 2 tropicals, one with 2 goldfish who won't go away (daughter won them years ago at the fair) and the rest kokopu, mostly giant kokopu. there are also 6 ponds totalling 2 acres with a hundred thousand or so common whitebait and several hundred grey mullet. and then there is the spring which runs into two more ponds where I have 4 raceways with a thousand or so banded kokopu plus 4 more giants. Plus there are two streams running through the place that I have fenced off and have been replanting with native trees. They hold whitebait and eels etc and even the native freshwater limpet, which believe it or not, is bioluminescent. There is also the water lily pond and another for eels. Our 60 acres borders an river estuary and I fish for flounder, mullet and kahawai from a dinghy plus whitebait in season of course. Fish are still such amazing creatures. So perhaps you could say I am mildly obsessed (my wife uses stronger terms). Just because I am still using the steel frame tank I made in the 4th form at metalwork (I'm now over 50) plus still got the one I bought in 1961 from Johny Walkers pet shop in Queen Street (anyone remember that shop ?) for two pounds five shillings of hoarded pocket money doesn't mean that everyone else is like that. Never heard of chillers, what part of NZ do you people live in where the T never goes below 22 C anyway ? These native fish live from North Cape to Bluff and I guess I got keeping them as a kid because I couldn't afford Heaters etc. They also came at the right price although it has been a long hard road of learning about disease control in wild caught fish. I have kept natives in tropical tanks. They are a bit boisterous for your average neon tetra but some of your cichlids would get along OK with them. Once had a tank with torrentfish (which live in places like the Haast River) living with siamese fighting fish which I was into breeding at the time. Some natives can get pretty revved up in tropical tanks and eat like mad. but over summer, even my big ponds can get up to 28 with no problems with the natives. So maybe I'll just grumble along quietly in the background slowly infecting you all with the bug for native fish. My first tank was an old school one that I kept two freshwater mussels in for years. Not your most active pets but quietly interesting all the same. This hobby started at 8 !!! I may need help.... Charles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted August 20, 2003 Report Share Posted August 20, 2003 I think the concern is not going over 22° instead of it not going under 22°...If they can handle up to 28° without much trouble...Hmmm, might have to have a talk with wifey though she will be very unsupporting, I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuhliloach Posted August 20, 2003 Report Share Posted August 20, 2003 Tell us more-Tank size, requirements, etc I have had an interest in native fish for some time. I too don't have the room or a spare tank at the moment but who nows what may happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave Posted August 20, 2003 Report Share Posted August 20, 2003 A few years ago when i was still going to school i used to go don to innes comman down by the Hamilon lake and collect perch , catfish , eels , carp which i kepted in a tub outside .That was untill it rained and the eell escaped into my parents vege garden then they proaly said Dave take those fish back . I then got a bit more creative and set up a aquarium with driftwood rocks etc and caught a couple of freshwater crayfish down the Waikato river which were alot of fun . My point is as a hobbyist i enjoy most fish an admittly look so much happier if you set your aquarium up as close to there natural environment as possible . I have seen natives in tanks and they look pretty good in aquariums i certianly would consider it if i had the tanks . Chillers well i don't know much about them but realy if you have a contnue flow of water how hot would a aquarium get in the summer i would be very suprise if it went over 22 degrees without heating thats in the waikato anyway Ponds should be at least 600mm deep to aviod them getting to warm . Just my thoughts . Charles it would be good to vist your whitebait farm sometime. I do enjoy fishing but i promise i will leave my net, bucket , eggs , gas cooker , pan and fresh bread at home Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuhliloach Posted August 20, 2003 Report Share Posted August 20, 2003 I have found what you have written very interesting.You are obviously very knowledgeable on this subject, please tell us more. I think we should as fish keepers learn more about our Native fish.Caryl maybe Charles could write an article for you to publish in the next Aquarium World Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shilo Posted August 20, 2003 Report Share Posted August 20, 2003 Likewise, I can only dream of setting up another tank for the same reasons as already stated. But I have kept natives (Inanga, Giant, Redfin, & Common Bullies, Eels & a crayfish) before and found them fantastic! The tank was in a downstairs basement so it was fairly cool over the summer months thus my worry with the high summer tempatures where I am now. The natives seem to have so much more "character" then the tropicals I am keeping. The school of 6 Inanga I had used to follow my finger single file - including jumps when I took it above water level. Synchronised swimming at its best. Charles it is not that natives are not exotic enough, for the Joe Blogg public they are too exotic. Most people will say that trout are native and not even know of the Bullies and Kokopu living in the stream at the bottom of their section. Education is the key to selling them. This forum is only a very small section of your market but one which is very interested in your "obsession". IMHO the biggest and best market for you would be the garden centres and those specialising in ponds. Natives may not be as colourful as Goldfish, but they are much more interesting. Natives have cropped up a few times on this board and will again so hang around, your input will be most welcome. P.S. I often spend an hour or so just watching some wild Banded Kokopu in a stream at the local Forest & Bird. I to am obsessed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caryl Posted August 20, 2003 Report Share Posted August 20, 2003 Good thought kuhliloach! What about it Charles? Would you like to write an article on these fish for the Aquarium World magazine? This magazine is a 40 page A5 size full colour (as of this month) quarterly put out by the FNZAS and given free to all affiliated members. It is also sent to several libraries around the country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris.L Posted August 20, 2003 Report Share Posted August 20, 2003 Im sure places like Hollywood and Jansens to name a few would be very keen? Im in the same boat as the others, not enough room, money etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goldie Posted August 20, 2003 Report Share Posted August 20, 2003 I am smiling quietly here as I type. Charles, Welcome home. We are all more or less slightly obsessed with fish can't you tell. Again what size tank am I looking at to keep Kokopu?? what would be good tank mates for them (how many would I need to have happy fish) and what sort of tank decor would I need to set up?? I will pop over to trade me if I get time..............I have to rush off to work now and usually when I get home I have to sort out the domestic situation etc and then have time and energy just to go to my normal fishy cyber hangouts. Printing the info here would also help anyone else visiting this site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goldie Posted August 20, 2003 Report Share Posted August 20, 2003 ooooooops never mind I just got all the info I needed under the trade me thread of this forum. duhhhhhhhhh I thought you meant the auction site Caryl of Trade Me LOL :oops: :oops: Mornings are not my good time :oops: :oops: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aqua Posted January 25, 2005 Report Share Posted January 25, 2005 Does anybody have a contact email etc for this guy? I'd dearly love to get in touch with him! in advance Cheers!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phillz Posted January 27, 2005 Report Share Posted January 27, 2005 Me too....wish I was around when he was posting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aqua Posted January 27, 2005 Report Share Posted January 27, 2005 Cees? As admin, are you able to get in touch with him using the email he supplied during registration to see if he's still interested in selling these fish? I don't see any reason why he wouldn't, and I'm willing to pay the money for the fish!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Posted January 27, 2005 Report Share Posted January 27, 2005 I think he's out Raglan way If he is the one, I'm almost sure Rob or Dave know him or know how to contact him. Alan 104 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phillz Posted January 27, 2005 Report Share Posted January 27, 2005 Fingers crossed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surfnz27 Posted February 14, 2005 Report Share Posted February 14, 2005 i have seen inuga for sale in jansens Mt eden road thats all ... I would be keen on keeping native fish but have never seen them available(im not into removing wild life)So if you looked into marketing statigies i think you might be supprised.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HummingBird Posted February 14, 2005 Report Share Posted February 14, 2005 If you saw native fish for sale they would probably just be removed from nature anyways though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Posted February 14, 2005 Report Share Posted February 14, 2005 Why don't you do the family thing, grab a net, plastic bags, buckets and away you go. Catch ya own, it doesn't cost ya anything and ya have fun doing it. There use to be a club in the FNZAS called the NZFWNFG. I think that's what it was. New Zealand Fresh Water Native-fish Group. Don't know if they are around now tho Alan 104 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phillz Posted February 14, 2005 Report Share Posted February 14, 2005 On the advice frome Alan....thats exactly what I did.....started my love for our natives....very cool little fish. I have Crans Bullies at the moment, looking to add some inanga soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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