Duke Posted May 10, 2006 Report Share Posted May 10, 2006 .I am planning to run my AP850 from a 1260 pump through my chiller in too the skimmer. The skimmer input pipe diameter is 1inch while the chiller and 1260 is half inch will this be OK? I am planning to circulate through the sump. Any ideas on plumping options Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Posted May 10, 2006 Report Share Posted May 10, 2006 Why do you want to make it fatter?? Alan 104 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Posted May 10, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 10, 2006 What I mean is I will need to feed the skimmer with half inch pipe to the infeed of the skimmer which is 1 inch. Will this restrict flow too much? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted May 10, 2006 Report Share Posted May 10, 2006 What I mean is I will need to feed the skimmer with half inch pipe to the infeed of the skimmer which is 1 inch. Not making sense here? Anways I think you've got all your measurements incorrect (around the wrong way). According to.... http://www.marinedepot.com/md_viewItem.asp?idproduct=EH1260 It says here that the Eheim pump inlet is 1" and the outlet is 3/4" http://www.deltecusa.us/proteinskimmers/ap851.php (Ok, so it's the 851 so Im assuming its still the same) From this site, it says that the Skimmer inlet is 1/2" and outlet is 1" Regardless of pipe sizes, you first want to find out what lph you have and what you need... The Deltec AP850 requires 350gph (1300lph) of flow The Eheim 1260 produces 635gph (2400lph) of flow The Chiller (???) requires an unknown amount of flow (however, they can usually handle a reasonable amount) Clearly, the Eheim can pump more than what the Deltec requires (by almost double) You say you plan on circulating through your sump, so I assume by this you mean you have a separate return pump and the skimmer/chiller combo is just like a "sump closed loop" Personally, I would gravity feed both the skimmer and chiller but if thats not an option, I would do the following (or at least take what you want from it)... PUMP: Plumb the outlet from the Eheim using 1" pressure piping (clearly you'll need an "enlarger" straight off the eheim, 3/4" -> 1"). Split the pipe after this (as close as practical to the pump outlet) into two using a 'Y' pipe, lets call the split paths 'A' and 'B'. SKIMMER: Along path 'A' (where ever is practical) add a ball valve (optional, but I'll explain the benefits below). Then, continue 'A' piping from the ball valve to the skimmer (reducing the piping just before it enters the skimmer back down to 1/2" again) Then run the outlet from the skimmer back into the sump. CHILLER: From pipe 'B', continue this plumbing straight to the chiller (again, reducing the size just before the chiller) However, I would make sure it is possible if you "unplug" the pipe from the chiller that you can direct that piping straight back into the sump. This allows the inlet to be "unplugged" so you can disconnect the chiller completely, rinse it out and use it again the following summer! Obviously direct the chiller outlet back into the sump as well The reasons for the above are as follows: 1. You have large enough piping (1") so flow is unlikely to be restricted if you ever add a larger pump. 2. If you ever need to upgrade to a larger skimmer (say with a 1" inlet), you just cut the reducers off and plug it straight in 3. Its very unlikely you will ever need to "tune down the ball valve" to reduce flow because theoretically, 50% of flow should go down each pipe as they're both the same size and coincidentally, 50% of that flow is the optimal amount required by the skimmer. However if the pump is upgraded to greater flow you have the option. See next point for the convenience factor though... 4. You can turn the ball valve off completely so the skimmer can be cleaned or completely stripped and cleaned without the need to turn the pump off (I have this just before my gravity fed AP902, works an absolute treat - the fuge handles the extra flow in the interim) Remember theres more than one way to skin a cat I really recommend you consider gravity feeding all this, saves on an extra pump (and power costs) which could otherwise be used for circulation or sold to buy some frags :bounce: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Posted May 10, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 10, 2006 Like it... gravity feed sounds the way to go. I am using a L7 return pump which is 50mm what would be the best way to tap in to the flow. Also my chiller also controls the heaters, so I usually leave this conected all year around. Is this not a good idea? Durring the winter it only turns on and off the heater while in the summer it cools the water. It will stuggle this summer as it will be slightly under capacity. thanks for the help much appriciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghostface Posted May 10, 2006 Report Share Posted May 10, 2006 chim can you explain how you get your gravity feed to run at a stable rate of flow? do you just tee it off and put a valve on it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghostface Posted May 10, 2006 Report Share Posted May 10, 2006 duke my 850 struggles to cope with 1300lph, i have a 1300lph pump that goes through UV, 3 90deg. bends, 2foot head and some flexipipe. with all of that restriction it seems to send the perfect amount to the skimmer - with the skimmer outlet vavle open full, the water level is right at the bottom of the neck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted May 10, 2006 Report Share Posted May 10, 2006 chim can you explain how you get your gravity feed to run at a stable rate of flow? do you just tee it off and put a valve on it? simple really, work out the total surface area of each devices inlet that you want to gravity feed (ie: add them all together). then, make sure that the surface area from the outlet of the overflow is at least this size or larger. in my case the overflow pipe down is 40mm. when you T it off, add reducers and piping to match the exact size of the inlet of each piece of equipment you gravity feed. for example, my skimmer inlet is 25mm, so i t off the 40mm pipe with a 40mm T then immediately add a reducer to bring it down to 25mm. just before the skimmer is a ball valve (which is always left wide open) - i simply use it to turn the skimmer off for maintenance. likewise with the chiller, its inlet is 20mm, so after the skimmer T is another T which is then instantly reduced down to 20mm (however there is a 20mm ball valve sitting right next to this T so I can turn this off completely over winter, disconnect the chiller and store it til next summer. any thing left over goes down to the fuge. basically, the total surface area of the overflow has to be the same size or larger than the combined surface areas of each gravity fed device AND each pipe to each device should be matched to the devices inlet size. its not necessary to go larger as its only gravity fed, not forced like a return pump is. the way i see it is its designed at that size for a reason so give it what it wants! (this is different for a return pump though, as you should go a minimum pipe size to be the same as the return pumps outlet or supposedly its better to go slightly larger. likewise feeding it, go the same size pipe or larger) make sense? duke, come have a look at my setup and get some ideas before you spend the cash on plumbing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetskisteve Posted May 11, 2006 Report Share Posted May 11, 2006 duke, come have a look at my setup and get some ideas before you spend the cash on plumbing Cos your the king of cheap plumbing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted May 11, 2006 Report Share Posted May 11, 2006 ahhh steve, sarcasm at its finest hence why he should come see my setup and do it right first time rather than learning by mistake like i did... several times... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Posted May 11, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 11, 2006 Chimera, I went shopping today at plumping world. I would like to come and have a look at your setup as I would love to see you tank. I have some oceanmotion stuff comming also. The 2inch pipe in my return the 1inch is back to the tank but is not finished yet. I have purchased fittings from 2inch too 1inch using a tee as you have stated to feed the skimmer. My concern is my chiller as you will see the fittings are for a small hose like a garden hose. Can I include this in my gravity feed for the skimmer? I feel they will be too restricting. My chiller also controls my heaters so I currently use it all year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted May 11, 2006 Report Share Posted May 11, 2006 *Twitch*Twitch* plumBing PlumBing plumBing! Sorry. :oops: What are those two black hoses for in the second picture? They seem a bit high for something like a return hose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Posted May 11, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 11, 2006 That is where my DI water filter is going. I am using a solinoid to turn on the water flow through the filter then in to a 20L container with a level switch and pump. I also have a level switch in the sump which will turn on the pump in the 20L container and top up the sump. I will open the soliniod once a day on a timer which will stop when the 20L is fill. I did not want to turn on the soliniod and have the DI water flow stright in to the sump. If the solinoid or level switch fail water could flow in to the sump for hours. Lesson from accident on net where too much fresh water was added to the sump. If the sump level switch fails then the max I can pump in to the sump is 20L. Complete failure would involve soliniod,pump control and 2 x level switches etc. Not likley. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slappers Posted May 11, 2006 Report Share Posted May 11, 2006 will the RO unit fit up there as the units are quite long around 430m with the pressure meter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Posted May 11, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 11, 2006 My unit is not RO but DI which is only a two stage filter. Not as good as RO but better than nothing. As I am on tank water I don't have all the aditives like town water. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted May 12, 2006 Report Share Posted May 12, 2006 cool, PM me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Posted May 16, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 16, 2006 Well the skimmer is gravity feed and I'm going to buy a small 1000lhr pump to run my chiller. Getting close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted May 16, 2006 Report Share Posted May 16, 2006 gravity feed the chiller too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feelers Posted May 16, 2006 Report Share Posted May 16, 2006 I need to know about plumbing my chiller too - at the moment its gonna be on the outtake of a cannister filter. What happens if the chiller goes dry? Will it cut out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Posted May 17, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 17, 2006 I scared about restricting flow as the hose size of the chiller is so small compared to the skimmer. Still thinking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted May 17, 2006 Report Share Posted May 17, 2006 im confused, your comments dont make sense?! gravity feed both. give the skimmer one separate T'd off feed and the chiller the other T'd off feed. IMO the best way (and this is not how i did it, but this would have been better in hindsight) would be to T off the downpipe and feed the chiller first (reduce the T down to the same size as the chiller inlet) immediately after the chiller T, add a skimmer T (again, reduce the T down to the same size as the skimmer inlet) put the outlet of the skimmer back into the sump. with the chiller outlet, either dump it straight into the sump next to the skimmers outlet or perhaps a better solution, loop the outlet of the chiller back around and feed it back into the inlet of the skimmer. that way all water goes through the skimmer - even 'cooled' water coming out the chiller. the choice you make should depend on flow rates - work out what each needs first and give them that much or more, prioritising the skimmer first as it has a larger inlet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Posted May 17, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 17, 2006 Makes sense..... I was still thinking of having them both inline. Another T tap and a heap of fittings but at least it free power for the chiller. Should pay for itself in a few years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Posted May 22, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 22, 2006 I have hooked up the skimmer and the water is surging from my over flow in to the skimmer. I can't keep a stable water level. Also had to lift the skimmer so the return gravity feed back in to the tank. Picture of the plumbing where I have teed off the over flow. The bend in the in feed pipe may not help? (far picture where the hose goes under the skimmer return) Skimmer Any ideas to get a stable water level and no surging.... 1060 pump?'> Any ideas to get a stable water level and no surging.... 1060 pump? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slappers Posted May 22, 2006 Report Share Posted May 22, 2006 can you straighten your pipes out abit from your pump to your skimmer i may help, my skimmer is pump feed with no worries Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted May 22, 2006 Report Share Posted May 22, 2006 ugh!!! took me a bit to work that one out - should have labelled the pipes on your pic! i believe the problem is how you put your T in. it looks to be mounted horizontal, it needs to be on a 45 or even 90 degree angle pointing downwards. you need the bulk of the water flowing downwards to flow into the skimmer. water will naturally take the smoothest route down, and that looks to be straight ahead. by angling the T to your skimmer downwards, gravity will cause the bulk of the water to 'drop' into that pipe (and thus no air), anything excess will continue down the rest of the pipe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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