Who is nipping?

[Caper]

A couple of my guppies tails look like they are getting nipped. I don't think its fin rot as they don't appear to be white or anything.

I have a platy, mollies, guppies, neons, red eye tetras, pleco, WCMM...any suggestions on who the culprit may be? I love watching my fishies but never notice anything going on

I'm trying to remember if Ihad this problem before I added a white molly...but, can't remember :-?

I don't want to add Melafix, as I don't want to use it if its not necessary...but should I to help their fins heal????

On a much sadder note ...I lost my sailfin molly. Real mystery, everything was fine...then it's almost like it just disappeared. If something happened and the other fishies ate him...they sure did it fast!

[Matt]

Hi Caper,

My guess is the Red Eye Tetra, especially if you only have a small group of them, if the tail nipping has just started happening then I would look to any new fish that you have introduced recently as well. I would add Melafix anyway as it doesn't harm your plants or filter in anyway and will help their tails heals faster.

As far as your Molly is concerned Pleco's are real good at eating dead fish, either your pleco ate him or he is on the floor somewhere .

I hope this helps.

Cheers,

Matt

[Caryl]

I too would guess the tetra

[Caper]

Thanks folks

Matt, he disappeared to quickly...I mean there were no signs even that he was sick. I did a check of the floor but no sign of him. I thought for sure he must have somehow got out because he disappeared so fast!

My pleco isn't that big as yet...could he have eaten him that fast?

The red eye tetra...well I'll be a horse kicked by a mule...I would never have guessed them! Until recently, they always seemed so "laid back" so to speak. As I said in another post, I only had 2 for quite awhile, was going to get more but they only had 1.

I have to keep my eye on how many fishies I have as my tank is not that big, but do you think if I can get maybe 2 more that might keep them busy enough to leave the guppies alone?

Way back, I did read on the net *must go check*....yep, can be guilty but it says on slow moving fishies with long tails. I would not have thought guppies to be slow moving :-?

Well, I can't decide on using the Melafix or not. In the disease forum I posted about one of my guppies tail going, I did treat, his tail is coming back.

Sorry so long, anyway my question is if the guppies tails are being nipped which I truly suspect that's what's happening...won't I be fighting a loosing battle if I treat them with the melafix & they are only going to get nipped again...if you understand what I'm trying to say :-? AND if I'm constantly treating with it, won't it eventually be useless? Oh my, what to do :-? :-?

[Laura]

Hello Caper,

From what I've read about Red Eye Tetras, they're definitely guilty culprits for nipping at long-finned fish.

do you think if I can get maybe 2 more that might keep them busy enough to leave the guppies alone?

If you can comfortably squeeze them in, that'd be a good idea. As a shoaling fish, they'll be happier in a larger group and hopefully any aggro will be a bit more spread out.

If you are able to fit one or two more plants in the tank too, that might be worth a try. This should hopefully give the fish more opportunity to keep out of the guppies' way .

won't I be fighting a loosing battle if I treat them with the melafix & they are only going to get nipped again...AND if I'm constantly treating with it, won't it eventually be useless?

I'm afraid you're right there. Unfortunately, the fin-nipping is in the Red Eye's nature. And if Melafix is used too often in a relatively short period of time, the fish will eventually build up a tolerance to it which gradually weakens it's effectiveness. I hope a larger shoal/more plants will help prevent some of the nipping behaviour; if you find it's getting a bit too much for your guppies, at least it might buy you some time if you feel you need to move the Red Eye's into another tank.

[dee_jay_01]

I would still recommend Melafix Just remember if you add melafix to the water take out any carbon you may have in the tank as it wont work.

And it is better to treat now then have them die latter from infection.

[Laura]

it is better to treat now then have them die latter from infection.

Oops, I didn't mean to imply that using Melafix to treat the immediate problem was a bad idea - I just never made myself very clear :oops: . I absolutely agree .

[MRSkz]

Just to add my 2c hear. I personaly don't belive in adding more of a fish that I'm having a problem with. Sure some fish are suppose to behave better the more you have in your tank but if you have a few that are already a problem why get more? It is your decision, of course, I just think it odd to solve a problem by adding more of the same thing that is causing the problem.

Good luck

[Caper]

Oh my...what should I do then?

Hmmm... I did read somewhere on the net that you could put these guys with guppies...oh well, I was also told when I bought the sailfin molly he'd be harrassing the other fish...poor fella, never bothered anyone it was just him and the other black molly that would "hang" out together...I guess different strokes for...a...different...scales :-? :lol:

So could this possibly mean I need another tank ...but if I do...what can I put in with the red eyes???

[Laura]

Hey Caper,

To be honest, I'm starting to get a little confused myself! The Red Eyes like to be in groups of 5 or more, but would adding more to your tank make the existing ones chill out, or will it only be perpetuating the problem...hmm, I'm stuck! But having thought about it a little more, even though large numbers make them feel happier, safer and reduces damage done to individuals of that species (spreads out the in-fighting), it might not necessarily address their innate need to nip long fins! .

From what you've said, it sounds like the nipping is getting a bit out of hand. If you feel it's so bad that a separate tank is required, I do know the Red-Eye's would be compatible with fish such as Corys, Plecs, Danios (but not long-finned ones), large Tetras, Mollies and Platies. Pretty much anything that's not too timid (Red Eye's are lively swimmers) and doesn't have long fins.

In the tank the Red Eye's are in at the mo, the guppies (with their long fins) are the possibly the only fish they'll have a problem with. Do you have another tank already set up that the guppies could go into? Just a thought.

Maybe some of the other members have another solution, though - hold on and see if there's more advice before setting up another tank . Perhaps you could try adding an extra plant or two in the meantime, to see if that helps?

*Laura hopes she hasn't confused you more!*

[Caryl]

Take the easy way out and get another tank!

Red eyes will go with most other short finned fish - rasboras, danios, tetras, barbs.

[Caper]

Oh my gosh...I did it...I got another tank I'm loosing aren't I

Ok here's the scoop it's only a 29 gallon but I got everything, stand included for a really good buy.

But the bad news is...I also have a very big pleco too. I went up to see the tank & stand tonight...thought for the price, I was taking it! Then I noticed this big pleco, I said what are you doing with him...you can have him if you want or else he's going, we'll let's just say fishy heaven. Well, what could I do, I wanted the tank but I couldn't let poor fishy go to heaven. Although, he may yet with the shock of moving

Anyway...wasn't sure when they were going to get the tank empty so I took Mr. Big home with me, and he's now in my other 29 gallon temporarily.

I gave the tank a good cleaning and the filter...didn't change the filter media though want to make sure some estabilished bacteria, right?

So right now I have the filter going, gravel was already in tank & they actually brought some of the water they took out down to me

Sorry so long winded, questions:

- when can I put fishies in considering the above noted stuff?

- it has a whisper filter, the man said it was a 30/60, anyway I can verify that?

- the water flows down 2 sides & the intake tube at the top looks like somekind of water control thing on it...I know I should have asked more questions, but until I got it home...I didn't think of it :oops:

I'll get a pic of the filter later.

Anyway...any and all suggestions for the above would be appreciated

Oh my gosh...I got another tank

[mustcooktea]

Congratulations on the new tank, Caper! :bounce:

Try and see if you can spot your filter here:

http://www.tetra-fish.com/catalog/category.aspx?id=49

Do you know how long the filter was out of the tank for? I would think that since you have taken care of the media you would be fine to start putting fish in. You know to take things slowly so I don't need to tell you that.

How big is the pleco? You might need another tank for him!

MCT

[Caper]

Thanks to everybody for your help...and Laura you didn't confuse me more

Anyway, can't stay have to get ready for work.

Just to clarify...

-the people only live a couple of minutes I'd say drive from my place

- take into account a half hour of getting Mr. Big acclimated (shoot prob. spelled wrong)

-I'd say within the next half hour if that, the people called & said they had the tank drained & because I have a small car they offered to deliver it to me

-so, I wouldn't think the filters were out of water for too long, when I got them I put them in a bucket & covered them with water they brought down from the tank until I cleaned & set it up

sorry...in my "excited" state...forgot to mention that ended up getting the tank last night :-? :-? If I had known that I was getting it that fast I would not have put Mr. Big in my other tank...but where I wasn't sure when I'd get the other tank & when I'd get it set up I had no choice but to put him in my other tank.

Mustcooktea, I'll check that site out tongiht when I get home from work.

I checked on the net last night....it says I can put gouramis in with red eyes...but it also said guppies. Just wondering what else I could put besides the ones recommended or would you say that is it.

I do have to watch how many because of Mr. Big being... :-? big! I would not have taken him only I didn't want him to die

[Caper]

Here is Mr. Big

new tank

filter

Okay it is a Tetra Whisper Filter 30/60:

-in front there is a black sponge like thing

- behind that (according to box with extra filters) aerobic frame with clip, "thick'n fluffy" filter bag (carbon goes in this)

Oh forgot...tested the water in new tank:

-ammonia, on my test kit it starts 0 ppm(mg/L) then next reading is .25 - well, its not 0 but not .25 either - I'd say more towards the 0

- pH between 7.2 & 7.6 (more towards 7.6)

- nitrates .1

I know I'm supposed to take it slowly...but a couple of my guppies tail fins are getting quite bad...would it be too soon to take the red eye tetras & move them into new tank????

[Feelers]

I sounds like the tank is pretty much still cycled anyway. Bacteria in filters are supposed to be sweet for at least a couple of hours with no circulation.

I personally doubt that <0.25 ammoinia would be a problem. I'd just put the red neons in slowly and watch the params.

[Caper]

Thanks Feelers

Ok...I'll go take the red eyes out now and get them ready for the other tank.

Oh...shoot...can I just use a freezer bag, obviously I don't have the bags that you get when you buy the fish :-?

[Feelers]

I think they'd be fine as long as they were clean.

[Laura]

Oh my gosh...I got another tank

Woohoo! Way to go Caper . Yep, personally I'd take any tenuous reasoning available to jusify getting a new tank (and a new Plec, for that matter!) :lol: .

And good for you for rescuing Mr. Big. He's gone to a great home. Good Luck!

[Caper]

Thanks Laura

I just finished chasing the 3 red eye tetras to put in the other tank...OMG...what a task...of course, they were the only ones that went into hiding :evil: Good thing I don't have real plants, they would have been all uprooted as I had to remove all the artificial ones to get these little *darlings* :lol: :lol:

Now, on to the next set of questions :oops:

How long before I can put Mr. Big in the other tank (the one that he was originally in)? I'm thinking in terms of algae in there?

Although, the 2 tanks are the same size, right now (as you can see in the pic) there's not much in the new tank. Considering his size, would/should I put much more in there in terms of more artificial plants or ornaments?

Originally, I hoped that I could get more ottos to put in this tank...but since I didn't want them to ah...send Mr. Big to heaven...for the time being anyway the new tank will be his home.

Re the filter (pic & some description above): in my other 2 filters, the bio is in the front & never gets changed only swished around in a bucket of tank water occasionally. Now, does anyone now of these filters? I did look at the website mustcooktea I don't see a pic of it there but on the lid it has 30/60. What I don't understand is...could the black, ah filter media in the front be the bio filter the one that doesnt' ever get changed???? :oops: One more thing, there's a control on the top I played with it & it does decrease/increase the flow, oh I hope I'm describing this so someone will understand

Anybody

[Caper]

How long before I can put Mr. Big in the other tank (the one that he was originally in)? I'm thinking in terms of algae in there?

Ah...anybody??? I turned my light in really early today hoping that this will cause the algae to grow, ah...am I right, or will I just end up with bad water???

I tested the water again today in the tank I bought:

ammonia - I'd say just about 0 now, just a tad darker than the card

nitrates - .1

pH - well if I hold the tube right on the white of the test card it looks almost 7.6, if I hold it out a bit more towards 7.2 - something I'm thinking maybe somewhere in between - which is what my water in the other 2 tanks test are awlays the same.

I did 25% water change and changed the white/carbon filter. I read the box at Walmart for one of these filters & I was right the black is the bio filter.

[MRSkz]

Well I don't have plecos, just B/N's but I'd say if all you have in the other tank is the 4 tetras and nothing else I'd just go ahead and plop him n2 the other one when ur ready. Of cource I tend to do that with my fish from tank to tank. The strongest survives. Of cource I wouldn't throw a guppie from a cold tank n2 a warm tank

[Modern Angl]

Regarding Mr Big (80s hair tastic metal band flashback...), common plecos aren't the best choice for cleaning algae, they generally too lazy to keep a tank really clean, you want BN for that. As long as there is a bit of wood for him to munch on, he'll be ok. Don't worry about getting algae levels in the tank up as long as you feed him plenty so he'll grow, he'll do just fine

We feed ours on a constant supply of algae discs / shrimp pellets and he loves Courgette / Zuccini and shelled boiled peas. He also eats flake food as well as blocks of bloodworm off the surface which annoys the other fish in the tank no end as its supposed to be for them...

Regarding ornaments, - driftwood and rocks only, with at least one bit of driftwood big enough for him to hide under as they aren't fans of bright light and like somewhere dim to sit. Plants are optional as big plecos tend to swim through them and rip them up all the time.

[Laura]

How do feel about trying out some real plants in your tank? With big plecs, sometimes it feels like they poo out more than they eat! Using up all that waste as fertilizer can be a good way to ensure your ammonia levels don't get too mad. It's true that big plecs can destroy your plants all too easily, but we've recently had some luck with Java Fern (thanks Karen:)). Anything broad-leafed, with a good set of roots on it, tends to have a better plec-survival rate. Here's a pic of this plant:

http://www.aquahobby.com/garden/e_javafern.php

There's also a plant database on the FNZAS site - once you enter the Plants section, the list is on the right-hand side.

One trick we're trying out is to get some leafy plants established in another tank before transferring them over to the tank with our big plec.

You don't have to do anything special to grow plants in an aquarium - all they need to get started is plenty of light and plenty of fish poo!

If you decide to go for it, remember to rinse your plants before you pop them in your tank (if you don't want snails). I like snails; they're cute and they help to keep the tank clean. However, they can breed prolifically then proceed to munch through all your new plants - so it's really up to the individual whether they want them in their tanks or not. We're dealing with the dreaded 'millions snails' at the mo :evil: . At least the Clown Loaches aren't going hungry, though .

[Caper]

Oh my...me and plants...I'm not brave enough to try them yet Laura. I hope someday...but then, it took me years to get an aquarium :-?

Modern Angel, I can't get any driftwood yet, our winter was just over. I will try when weather warms up a bit more. I've put the algae discs in, but Mr. Big didn't go near them. I tried the zuccini yesterday, same thing, he didn't go near it. But, I'll probably try it again as the first time I used in the other tank for Chong, he didn't eat it the first time either.

I don't give Chong zuccini very often. But I'm concerned that there may not be enough algae in the tank for Mr. Big. Any idea how long before algae starts to grow?

Here's pics of him, I know he's going to get too big for my tank, but he's so big and beautiful, I just couldn't let him be destroyed. The people had him for 2 years!