tel Posted March 17, 2006 Report Share Posted March 17, 2006 a better idea would be if they could give us fish on appro so we could trial them to see if any of our naughty fish bullied them. if they were mean and didn't respond to a stern warning we could then take them back. failing that we could have a bring and buy swap meet hosted by some friendly retailers who would probably queue up around the corner for such a wonderful opportunity to serve us coffee and muffins.... all at no charge of course as they probably don't need to feed their families 8) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquatopia Posted March 17, 2006 Report Share Posted March 17, 2006 Forthright is a characteristic I admire over BS. We are all grumpy sometimes, some of us more than others, and I am quite happy to continue trading there. It depends how "forthright" a person is - if it comes across as being rude its not appropriate in a service environment. And as far as being grumpy goes - it should stay at home and not be released on paying customers. Still, there are some people who dont mind that sort of thing. Each to their own. I personally expect more. Having said that, I have never been served by the person in question and the other staff have always proven helpful and friendly ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquatopia Posted March 17, 2006 Report Share Posted March 17, 2006 i think that one or more of the importers should start selling livestock on the net here. [like liveaquaria.com etc] . I personally would buy about twice as much if it was about half the price of retail. it is kinda cool to be able to goto a LFS and look at stuff but the prices could be so much better if bought straight from the importers - and i bet the importers could move heaps more stock. I couldnt agree more - and as far as seeing things - you could still do so on the net - not the same as picking a fish out in person ultimately but correctly managed it would work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joze Posted March 17, 2006 Report Share Posted March 17, 2006 It depends how "forthright" a person is - if it comes across as being rude its not appropriate in a service environment. And as far as being grumpy goes - it should stay at home and not be released on paying customers. The same goes for customers, abusive and abrupt customers usually get nowhere - unfortunately, abusive customers are a hell of a lot more prolific than abusive sales staff. Try to remember that this is LIVESTOCK and that its not the responsibility of the shop to take back fish because you have changed your mind. Its even more unreasonable if those fish have been specially ordered in for you. There is always at least 4 sides to customer service, what the customer thinks, what the retailer thinks, what actually happened and then the reality of the whole situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquatopia Posted March 17, 2006 Report Share Posted March 17, 2006 The same goes for customers, abusive and abrupt customers usually get nowhere - unfortunately, abusive customers are a hell of a lot more prolific than abusive sales staff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted March 17, 2006 Report Share Posted March 17, 2006 It's a mountain made out of a molehill. The guy did not buy back your fish. I think you should get used to it. There can be reasons for this. Some of the personal comments in this thread are way out of proportion to the "crime". And an undergravel filter is a very good option for an LFS. In the constantly drastically changing bioload that an LFS tank has to cope with, a UGF is much more able to adapt and cope, than rock like we would have in our own aquarium, although a combination of both would be a good option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeBlog Posted March 17, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 17, 2006 It's a mountain made out of a molehill. The guy did not buy back your fish. I think you should get used to it. There can be reasons for this. Some of the personal comments in this thread are way out of proportion to the "crime". And an undergravel filter is a very good option for an LFS. In the constantly drastically changing bioload that an LFS tank has to cope with, a UGF is much more able to adapt and cope, than rock like we would have in our own aquarium, although a combination of both would be a good option. So, do you run an undergravel in your system? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted March 17, 2006 Report Share Posted March 17, 2006 We may have to agree to differ. I have at various times bred and sold 50000 tropical fish a year and supplied most of the shops in Cristchurch and surrounds with aquatic plants and I therefore consider I have some experience in both sides of this discussion. I personally would not entertain the idea of returning a fish to any shop because it was being bullied by a fish I already had,or try to sell the bully fish to another customer in that shop. To me that is like expecting the shops to buy your goods after you have taken all the market by selling at the back door for half price. If a wholesaler sells to the public at wholesale prices they could hardly expect the shops to buy what is left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted March 17, 2006 Report Share Posted March 17, 2006 No I don't run a UGF Just think this whole thing's way over the top, that's all. As they say, crap happens. I'm not meaning to be personal or anything just from where I am there seems to be 2 sides of the story, and both are valid. Yours Steve, because he could have taken your fish, but also his, because there are reasons not to. It's just the way things went on this occasion, but it's not the end of the world. You say you used to be friends, I think you should not let this come between you and continue to deal there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeBlog Posted March 17, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 17, 2006 Just think this whole thing's way over the top, that's all. As they say, crap happens. I'm not meaning to be personal or anything just from where I am there seems to be 2 sides of the story, and both are valid. Yours Steve, because he could have taken your fish, but also his, because there are reasons not to. Fair enough. I suppose that you would not expect a store credit for the full amount. Others have said that they agree with me. This is all that I was looking for when I started the thread. I never mentioned the name of the store or the store owner. Bob (via his daughter) took it upon himself to reopened a dead thread with (what I consider) a personal attack and didn't have his facts straight, and thus I have responded. You say you used to be friends, I think you should not let this come between you and continue to deal there. This is never going to happen. I've found out what I was looking for and fortunately there are two other excellent marine stores in town (Organisms and Critter Kingdom) so I don't have to worry about this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted March 17, 2006 Report Share Posted March 17, 2006 Fair enough. I suppose that you would not expect a store credit for the full amount. Others have said that they agree with me. I agree with you too. I just think it's not the end of the world & it's time to move on. When HFF would not buy back a fish from me, I simply sold it privately, got on with my life, and still deal there happily. This is never going to happen. Not now, after all the mudslinging. I just question if it was all nessecary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Control Posted March 19, 2006 Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 This thread sucks I've never seen such a load of ignorant abuse towards a LHS before. However considering the forum that it's in I'm not supprised. I've been a customer of Bobs since I was a kid, I find the personal attacks in this thread towards him and the way he does business out of line and highly offensive. If you don't like the way your fish behave towards each other then that’s your problem. It's common knowledge that different types of wrasses can fight, it is not Bobs responsibility to lecture every idiot that walks into his store about there purchase and even if he was to, there are never any guaranties in this hobby regarding animal behaviour. If you don't know ask. That is the customer’s responsibility. Bob is there to make a living for himself and his staff. Taking fish back is a stupid and risky thing to do for any shop and no customer has the right to expect any difference in treatment because they may think of themselves as a better customer than another. I have always found that Bob treats everyone the same as each other with no bias and very fairly regarding problems. I think a lot of you owe him an apology for the ignorant crap that has been said in this thread. All it hs done is make Bob look bad for no justifiable reason and that is not on. Aaron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetskisteve Posted March 19, 2006 Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slappers Posted March 19, 2006 Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 well lost for words after that :roll: :roll: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquatopia Posted March 19, 2006 Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 There speaks someone who either hasnt read the thread in order or has missed the point totally :roll: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slappers Posted March 19, 2006 Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 i read a few lines Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Control Posted March 19, 2006 Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 There speaks someone who either hasnt read the thread in order or has missed the point totally Sorry Chris but your wrong on both counts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquatopia Posted March 19, 2006 Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 I disagree Aaron. Did you miss Joeblogs statement that he was simply asking for a point of view on what people expect initially and that he mentioned no names and made no personal comments? Did you then follow the thread further and see that it was the other party concerned that did precisely that? You say you find that people are treated fairly and equal at the LFS concerned, yet did you read the part where it is explained that this was not the case and another customer was specifically told they could bring a fish back if they had problems ? Did you read how Joeblog was accused of trying to sell a fish to another customer and yet this transpired to be nothing like the way it was described ? Not to mention that regardless of the ACTUAL situation, a large majority of people who have posted on this thread are in agreement that a retailer needs to balance up how he treats customers who spend thousands of dollars with them ? And yet you say I am wrong on both counts of saying you either have not read the thread or understood the point. I guess it boils down to who you believe. All i know is that from my impression Joeblog has no reason to lie. I have to disagree with you, but do not wish to argue the point with you any further. You have made your allegiance to Redwoods clear, and that is honourable. I have no way of comparing your custom at the store to that of Joeblog's. I myself have stated that I have never dealt with the person concerned and that the other staff have been nothing but helpful and friendly toward me. The situation still seems wholly unacceptable to me though, and i believe that Bob's comments, through his Daughter, were inflammatory and unnecessary. The thread had died. No posts had been made for a while and matters had calmed. But still, the person you respect so much decided to go on the attack. Go figure !!! :roll: !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted March 19, 2006 Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 Seems like your saying that the person whose business is under attack should not even have a right of reply? He will have become aware that some people would have figured out which business is being referred to, and as this is his livelihood he will have felt a need to portray his side of the story. To say he "went on the attack" is rather one sided, there has certainly been some nasty attacks from the other side. To be unable to see that would certainly betray a lack of neutrality. As the whole thing is simply about an incident where the store exercised their right not to re-purchase a fish, I just wonder what would happen if some people ever had a REAL problem. It's way overblown, and I'd have to agree, the thread sucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquatopia Posted March 19, 2006 Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 Seems like your saying that the person whose business is under attack should not even have a right of reply? . Not at all - but i think if the first side did not mention names or make personal comments then any reply should have been equally as non personal. Anyone who actually cares to read this thread in the correct order will realise this was not the case - regardless of who they agree with. If people were able to work out who it related to then perhaps the non specific comments rang true ??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debbie Posted March 19, 2006 Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 I'm not trying to drag this out any further because what has been said has been said. Personally, I felt We were entitled to the right of reply (not attack) In fact several members asked for it. Pommereef seems to keep bringing up that I resurrected a dead thread, not being a regular poster I was not aware that there was a time limit for reply. I only chose to print the entire thread (and give to Bob) after Bob had been made aware by his customers of the subject issue. Doesn' t take a brain surgeon to work out who it's about. He does not use or have a computer which is why (the third party - me!) entered the reply. I would like to personally thank Warren Stilwell, FNZAS President for offering to remove this thread altogether because of the personal attack but consider that the comments of the last few posts sum up the situation pretty well. Bob'sfinal reply to this is "the grumpy ole bugger is going to dust his books" :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Just out of interest, I have used "those old dusty books" to prove several species of marine fish have changed their names from the 1950's (when the standard was first written) as there was no "modern" information to prove this (for the recent MAF project, that we were involved - and spent a considerable amount of time on) Hopefully these fish will still be able to be imported for the hobby? Cheers Debbie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Control Posted March 19, 2006 Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 Go Debbie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tel Posted March 19, 2006 Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 Go Debbie aahhh....finally after all the heartbreak...a happy ending..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted March 19, 2006 Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 I hope Bob didn't take my grumpy old bugger comment too personally as there are a few of us about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debbie Posted March 19, 2006 Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 I hope Bob didn't take my grumpy old bugger comment too personally as there are a few of us about. Nah ........ in fact he had a chuckle. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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