LYNDYLOO Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 Does anyone know anything about using Clove Oil to put fishies out of their misery, was reading this on another forum, have never heard of this before, wondering if anyone has actually used this method to end a suffering fishies life. Lynda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanksman Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 It doesn't sound too humane to me. I like Alans idea of throwing them hard onto concrete better. Sticking a spike or knife into the head is nice and fast to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 While not at all pleasant, the methods mentioned by Alan and Tanksman are probably the quickest and most humane to the fish. Any more pleasant method for us humans is usually much less humane for the fish... Never heard of clove oil before either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilknieval69 Posted February 18, 2006 Report Share Posted February 18, 2006 from this link here http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=105532&highlight= it says that clove oil be used to knock the fish unconcieous(sp?) an thn u put it in a ziplock bag. pinch its head and chuck it in the rubbish. seems humane to me. but i dont know realy. your decision in the end.(the above link may be the forum you saw it on. hehe) **EVIL** :bounce: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LYNDYLOO Posted February 18, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2006 Thanks guys, must admit I have had to use Alans idea in the past and it seems to work really well, just read this on another fish forum, had never heard of this before so thought I would ask if anyones heard or used this method before. Thanks again. Lynda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LYNDYLOO Posted February 19, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2006 I have just been having a nosey on the fish site MSN Breeding Topical Fish, and I noticed on there they also mention using Clove oil as a form of euthanasia if you have a fish that needs to be put out of it's misery, apparently, Clove Oil is used as a form of anasethic, this is placed into a small amount of water, to which the fish is then added, the fish will then become unconscious,and eventually die, or you can remove the fish in it's unconscious state and behead it if you wanted too. I'm wondering if Clove Oil was used as an anasethic in the early days? I have now seen this mentioned on 2 different sites. Lynda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Posted February 19, 2006 Report Share Posted February 19, 2006 Sounds like it could be a really good way of euthanising a fish. Can you post a link to the info? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilknieval69 Posted February 19, 2006 Report Share Posted February 19, 2006 the link i provided was a thread from another forum. if you read on down the page a bit you will find that the person who started it had done it and it had worked a treat. i think it would be a good way to do it as they are knocked out almost instantly and thn u can kill thm by hitting thm etc. no pain, no hassle **EVIL** :bounce: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LYNDYLOO Posted February 19, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2006 Hi guys, Have a browse over this and see what you think. Anaesthetic Overdose :- This method is ideal for killing any size of fish though it must be noted that anaesthetic is NOT readily available over the counter and many vets don't offer a cheap service for putting down fish. The fish is placed in a bath of the solution until the gills stop moving and it lies on the bottom, it is then best to leave it for a couple of hours to ensure it is dead, as a precaution it is advisable to again destroy the brain. Suitable anaesthetics are: Benzocaine or Tricaine methanesulphonate (Finquel or MS-222) at 300mg per litre. Clove oil is also successful at 45 drops per gallon or 25 drops per litre. The fish should be left in the anaesthetic solution for a couple of hours or more to ensure that recovery does not occur following removal of the fish, if in doubt physical destruction of the brain should be carried out. People have been known to have used fizzing antacid tablets for the purpose the CO2 puts them to sleep, then it is essential that the brain should be destroyed. Not sure if I am doing this right, but will soon see. :oops: :oops: Think thats right. Lynda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilknieval69 Posted February 19, 2006 Report Share Posted February 19, 2006 so lynda are you actually planning to do this?? what on and why?? **EVIL** :bounce: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanksman Posted February 19, 2006 Report Share Posted February 19, 2006 Clove oil is also successful at 45 drops per gallon or 25 drops per litre. The fish should be left in the anaesthetic solution for a couple of hours or more Sounds like a Horrible way to die over 120minutes. Also 45 drops per gallon is only 10 drops per imperial litre or less than 12 drops per litre if US gallon. Not 25 drops per litre. Doesn't sound like a lot of scientific credibility IMHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kim&Dan Posted February 21, 2006 Report Share Posted February 21, 2006 Also 45 drops per gallon is only 10 drops per imperial litre or less than 12 drops per litre if US gallon. Not 25 drops per litre. Doesn't sound like a lot of scientific credibility IMHO. I have to agree with you - nicely spotted! I just read over it without noticing... :lol: This is what I found on the subject: Using clove oil alone is not recommended because even though a fish looks dead it can recover once it has been removed from the bath. Clove oil is a preferred anesthetic precisely because it is hard to overdose a fish with clove oil. Therefore be especially diligent when using clove oil alone, that the fish is really dead. It is much safer to use vodka as the final step. Unacceptable methods of euthanasia are: freezing, boiling, chopping, removing the fish from water, using a seltzer tablet, slamming, pithing, decapitating, or flushing down the toilet. These methods are slow, torturous, stressful or violent. Clove oil followed by vodka is both inexpensive and humane. The fish goes to sleep just like we might before an operation, and simply doesn't wake up. If you want to read the whole article: http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-the-mos ... a-fish.htm Great article! Also: Since fish are cold-blooded, the brain can continue to function for a long time even after the heart and lungs have ceased functioning. Therefore it is possible for fish to recover from deep anaesthesia even if they are apparently dead because they are not breathing and have no heart beat. It can be very difficult to determine if a fish is dead, therefore, once the fish is deeply anaesthetized by leaving it in the solution for a couple of hours, it is recommended to freeze the fish, decapitate it or administer a sharp blow to the head to ensure it does not recover from anaesthesia. This is an excerpt from here: http://www.petalia.com.au/templates/Sto ... ry_No=1885 I hope this clears it up a bit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petplanet Posted February 23, 2006 Report Share Posted February 23, 2006 It is also used for knocking puffers out so their beaks can be trimmed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LYNDYLOO Posted February 24, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2006 Really, thanks for that Michael, I just thought it would be a good idea for someone who couldn't bring themelves to putting a fishy out of their misery, by other means like throwing it on a hard surface eg: concrete, when it was still alive, at least with using the clove oil first, the fish would be unconscious, then it could be dealt with by a blow to the head or something like that. Was reading a thread on another fish forum and a girl was wanting to know how to go about putting her fishy out of it's misery as it was sick, most people posted to throw it on a hard surface, but she just couldn't bring herself to do that, then someone else posted to use clove oil, so this is why I posted this, mainly to see just how many people knew about the use of clove oil and how many people have actually used it. My understanding of putting the fishy in this clove oil solution was to make the fish unconscious then it could be put out of it's misery, it says to have the fish in the solution for a couple of hours, not that it takes a couple of hours for it to become effective. It wouldn't be a choice of mine to use this method, I have had to put one of my Rosy Barbs out of it's misery this morning, because it had pop-eye in both eyes and just seemed to keep swimming around in spirals all morning, so I chose to take it outside and throw it on the concrete, believe me I would rather have not had to do this, but I wanted an immediate solution to what ever was wrong with him. I can understand that some people cannot bring themselves to do such a thing, and maybe the easier option is to use the clove oil. Lynda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PENEJANE Posted February 24, 2006 Report Share Posted February 24, 2006 ok I have a book out from the library at the moment called Mini Encyclopedia, The Tropical Aquarium by Gina Sandford. It has in here the following: Disposing of sick fish humanely Fill a bowl with a litre of water from the aquarium and mix in a minimum of 10 drops of clove oil before putting in the affected fish. So yes I also agree that for thoes that find it difficult to cut/smash or throw their beloved fish into concret this is another way for doing it. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LYNDYLOO Posted February 24, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2006 Thank You for clarifying that PJ Got the info from another fish forum that I go on every now and then, so wasn't sure if was 100% True. Lynda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanksman Posted February 24, 2006 Report Share Posted February 24, 2006 Well can't argue with the facts then. Thanks PJ. My next question then is how do you think the fish feels when the clove oil is added? Does it take say 5 minutes to be ?anaethetised? Or less? How long does it take from netting to hitting the floor? 10 - 15 seconds? if that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LYNDYLOO Posted February 24, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2006 I agree with you tanksman, but I was just pointing out, that for some people, throwing there fishy friend onto hard concrete to kill it, just wouldn't be an option, so found this info and wondered if anyone had actually used this method, and wondered just how effective it was. I personally use, the throwing onto a hard surface, as the way I put my fishies out of their misery, I had to do this this morning too 1 of my rosy barbs, that all of a sudden developed pop-eye in both eyes and could only swim in a spiralling motion. PJ: Does it say in your book, just how long it takes to anaesthetize a fish using clove oil? Lynda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PENEJANE Posted February 24, 2006 Report Share Posted February 24, 2006 no it doesn't say how long for. It has it as a little highlighted section in the book and thats it. Nothing more mentioned about it. I am guessing that it would be as soon as you notice that the gills are no longer moving. If anyone has some clove oil and when they next have to cull off a fish could they consider this and let us know what happened? This could be an article added to the next Aquarium World book that caryl does if anyone is willing to try it out (not on any healthy fish of cause) and write an article about it. As to what size fish it was, how long it took to show that it had passed or fully asleep etc. Its just another option as mentioned before for thoes who don't feel comfortable throwing their beloved fishies onto the hard floor. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LYNDYLOO Posted February 25, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2006 Great idea PJ, I spose for some people it's just good to know, that there is another option, rather than, as you say throwing their beloved Fishy onto a hard surface. I am happy to experiment with this, even tho I am hoping, it wont be in the every near future. Lynda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharn Posted February 25, 2006 Report Share Posted February 25, 2006 if my oscar ever got sick and i had to kill him there would be absolutly no way i would throw him onto the ground- i get very attatched to certain fish and its not an option. it would be quite a mission to cut an oscars head off also with your average kitchen knife!!! its good to know theres other possibilites to put them to sleep nicely and without trauma, most people cant afford to take their fish to the vets to get put down. i hope we see more on this, to see if it is actually a good, easy, and pleasant way. thanks lyndyloo for starting the thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PENEJANE Posted February 25, 2006 Report Share Posted February 25, 2006 Yes Sharn thats just it. For some people they have a lot of fish but there is often the odd one that sticks out and becomes their fave due to personality and character. Chopping your beloved fish's head off is just not an option and is also difficult for thoes of you that have much larger fish and trying to hold it still while you smash its brain with a hammer can get a bit sickening so its just another option for thoes that have bigger fish (put it in a bucket with so much clove oil). So anyone willing to give this a go when a fish or two become sick (lets hope they don't but the truth is there are going to be some eventually) let us know how you get on. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Posted February 25, 2006 Report Share Posted February 25, 2006 Hold the fish still in a plastic bag. They make for a better target and can't slip away. For customers that wanted their big fish put down, I have used electricution. It was very dangerous for me and I wouldn't recommend it. Lethal for the fish tho. Alan 104 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanksman Posted February 25, 2006 Report Share Posted February 25, 2006 Electrocution - - Stand back :lol: Who said the head needs cutting off? If the gills stop altogether surely that means it is dead - lack of oxygen to the brain - so this can't happen with clove oil if used as an anaesthetic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slappers Posted February 25, 2006 Report Share Posted February 25, 2006 For customers that wanted their big fish put down, I have used electricution. It was very dangerous for me and I wouldn't recommend it. Lethal for the fish tho. Alan 104 you beast man you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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