iisfaq Posted February 15, 2006 Report Share Posted February 15, 2006 Hi All I am still having problems in my tank. I lost a small Discus the other day - well it is not there anymore - no sign of any problem and then gone. One of my large Discus is now permantly out the bank of the tank hiding this has been going on for about 2 weeks - this has been going on since before the small Discus died. My two large Discus always swam together and no they never do. If I ever see the second one out the front it hides as soon as it sees me. Tank water is all perfect. Any ideas? It doesn't even come out to eat! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharn Posted February 15, 2006 Report Share Posted February 15, 2006 worms maybe? worms can make them not want to eat, maybe hex also? has nothing changed at all in the tank ie added more fish etc? do you age your water (reason i ask is sometimes after rains etc water companies add certain chemicals that are nasty and can make discus go wierd). are they darker? sorry i couldnt be of more help! maybe a nice big water change would perk them up a bit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanksman Posted February 15, 2006 Report Share Posted February 15, 2006 Yeah I was going to say water change as well but your onto it and its all up to date no doubt. I had a look at your other (one of) thread. http://www.fnzas.org.nz/fishroom/1-vt11 ... sc&start=0 You have a neat tank and it looks like everything should be thriving. Did you end up getting an air pump? I noticed that there is no mention of water hardness results. Do you test for this? Are you using peat in your canister to help lower the ph and soften the water? I don't know alot about chemistry but maybe there is something in your tank that is releasing toxins into the water that the tests you use are not showing. Maybe in the substrate or filter media? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iisfaq Posted February 15, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2006 You have a neat tank and it looks like everything should be thriving. Did you end up getting an air pump? I noticed that there is no mention of water hardness results. Do you test for this? Are you using peat in your canister to help lower the ph and soften the water? HI Yes I did get an air pump and have it on quite slowly but continiously. I do not have a test for water hardness. Christchurch water is usually very clean and not treated - even the Pet shop says that they just use the water direct with nothing added. I have seen some quite black lines on the Discus that is not happy and I beleive that is a sign of stress but I am not sure of what. Nothing has changed other then trimming of plants in the tank. And that needed to be done otherwise there would be no room for fish to swim. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faran Posted February 15, 2006 Report Share Posted February 15, 2006 When discus get moody and start to get dark with a light tail it's a good sign that "hex" has set in. Oddly enough, this is an infection that can hit one fish and leave the others unaffected, then seems to pass to other fish when the affected fish dies. Don't ask me how this happens, I never pretent to fully understand discus social dynamics. Either way, treating all your fish with Metronidazole would be a good idea, as well as de-worming them if you don't already do so regularly. I find this site a great reference when dealing with spiro/hex - http://article.dphnet.com/cat-02/spiron ... Treatments Give it a read and see if any of the symptoms sound right. If so, treat with Met and if you're REALLY cautious then you should try and get a smear under a microscope to see if you can see the buggers. Remember that these things waaste away a fish slowly and if left untreated for too long your fish will not have the strength to recover. All this is advice that I wish others had given me during the long months of watching Big Blue (an extraordinarily large blue turq) waste away... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suphew Posted February 15, 2006 Report Share Posted February 15, 2006 Good advise from B&K, but I would also have a good look at your water supply to, isn't CHC water pumped up from the ground? This could make the water very hard which the fish wont like, plus with all the rain lately and farmers fertilizing, spraying, etc over summer there could be all sorts in the water. Running some carbon wouldn't be a bad idea, and you could try doing a couple of water changes using either rain water which is very soft (if theres not too much smog down there at the moment) or supermarket filtered water (don't use mineral water as this will be hard to). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iisfaq Posted February 16, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2006 When discus get moody and start to get dark with a light tail it's a good sign that "hex" has set in. I went to some pet shops today most did not know what I was talking about. I spoke to one who did but said that you can't buy Metronidazole it has to be prescribed by a Vet. The vet wants to see the fish, who will then take it to a pet shop to get them to idenfity the disease and then will prescribe. God knows what that will cost! Any ideas on sources for this stuff? Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faran Posted February 16, 2006 Report Share Posted February 16, 2006 Find a LFS that has an in-store vet. That's one way of getting by the back-and-forth. Otherwise, try calling your local vets and LFSes to see if anyone will give you some. It can be a bit pricey if you're treating the whole tank so I recommend a hospital/Q tank. Believe it or not, my breakthrough getting this stuff was the local SPCA. The vet even stopped by to look in on my fish and didn't charge me anything so I donated some $$ to the SPCA in his name. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted February 16, 2006 Report Share Posted February 16, 2006 It is used in the treatment of some parasitic diseases in humans such as amebiasis (amebic dysentary) and is called flagyl by the doctors. It is prescription only and will not be cheap. Can be used for hole in the head as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted February 16, 2006 Report Share Posted February 16, 2006 The water supply in Christchurch is around 45 ppm hardness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jude Posted February 16, 2006 Report Share Posted February 16, 2006 There is another medication that can be used. Bilbo mentioned it to me the other day but I can't remember what it was called. I am sure he won't mind you sending a private message to ask. Cheers Judy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert Posted February 16, 2006 Report Share Posted February 16, 2006 Flagl is avalable from your vet if you give him a print out from one of the sites that have info about this, its not cheap the vet will get it from the chemist and it costs $90 for a very small bottle in liquid form. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iisfaq Posted February 21, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2006 When discus get moody and start to get dark with a light tail it's a good sign that "hex" has set in. You are right on...... Hex in a big way. I went to one pet shop in Christchurch and they did not know what it could be, so I went to another they also did not know. They did not know about the drug either. I went back to the shop I bought the Discus from and they knew instantly - HEX! They wanted me to go to the vet with the infected fish who would take the fish back to the pet shop for Diagnosis and then prescribe... $$$$$ I decided to phone my Vet where we take our Cats & Dogs. They were going to sell me a IV solution - 500Mg for $20 I needed a lot of those bags and they then said that they had tablets and they would be cheaper. I bought 24 pills ( 400 mg each - 400 mg per 10 gallons) for about $32. I reduced the tank to about 1/2 (still close on 140 litres) and crushed 3 tabs.... Put this in and then 8 hours later did a 25% water change and put in 4 crushed tabs (Sunday) Monday morning 25% water change and 4 crushed tabs. Monday evening 25% water change and 4 crushed tabs. Tuesday morning 25% water change and 4 crushed tabs. Back to the vet saying I want more pills since I only had 5 left. After quite a while I was offered 12 pills (1.5 days) and I managed to get them up to about 16 Pills (2 days) - this time cost about $12.00 so tonight another 25% water change and 4 crushed pills. Since I have 2 days more of the pills I can do this tomorrow (Wednesday) and Thursday. Does anyone know how many days you can safely do this? The docs I have read from http://article.dphnet.com/cat-02/spironucleus.shtml#4.%20%20Treatments said do it for 3 days. But I am still seeing bad poo from the fish. My Discus did eat some frozen blood worms last night (first time in about 10 days) so he may be better and he is out sometimes but hides quite quickly when I poke my head up close. Noisey tank at 50% water level..... I really hope this is working...... But how do I know when to stop? Note: The first tablets were called Flagyl and the second were called Trichozole but aparently they are the same so the vet nurse told me. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharn Posted February 21, 2006 Report Share Posted February 21, 2006 frans (the fish dude round here) said you could use augmentim (sp), that its great for all types of illnesses, might be worth a shot looking into, might not need so much meds!!! good luck, let me know how you get on edit- 'Flagyl, or Metronidazole is for bacterial infections and also to treat Hex (hole in the head). Dose rate is 250 mg per 40 lts of tank water every 12 hours, with a 30% water change before each new dose, for 5 days. The dose can be increased to 400 mg per 40 lts in persistent cases, and the frequency increased to every 8 hours. Lights must be off during the treatment, as Metro is destroyed by light. If the fish is still eating, soak some dry food in metro and water. That way it goes straight into the gut where it does the most good, and put the remainder of the metro in the water. ' taken from http://www.discusforums.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4190 so it looks like your doing that hard out dose, HTH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caryl Posted February 21, 2006 Report Share Posted February 21, 2006 Since I am at work so have access to the information... Trichozole is metronidazole Flagyl is metronidazole plus sugar, ethanol & hydroxybenzoates You can also get metronidazole in an oil in water cream base for topical applications. It is called Rozex. Not sure if you can catch discus and apply a cream directly to the fish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iisfaq Posted February 22, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2006 If the fish is still eating, soak some dry food in metro and water. That way it goes straight into the gut where it does the most good, and put the remainder of the metro in the water. Thanks - I did not think about that... I gave the first dose this morning with food as well so I hope this takes and they get better. Their poo is looking better but not complety gone... So what do I do after 5 days if it looks similar to today? Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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