peet Posted March 28, 2003 Report Share Posted March 28, 2003 I have a 5ft x 2 x 2 freshwater tank, I bought a 700L/hr 2nd hand Genio filter, it seemed to be running a bit slowly, so timed its flowrate and its more like 200/300 L/hr. I got the local shop to check out the impellar (nothing wrong) Anyway, I am moving to aus so am thinking about DIY filters, the aim is to have a plant tank and marine tank back to back (very much like the marine and cichlid tank at Redwood aquatics Chch) What is the best filter types for each of these tanks. Theres so much debate about cannister, trickle, scrubbers etc. All I want to know is what works at the lowest DIY price. Plus has anyone got web plans for these filters. I have checked The Krib but cant seem to find quality plans. Catch ya Peet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatman Posted March 28, 2003 Report Share Posted March 28, 2003 I have made a filter using a brewing barrel, there is a 1000 ltr/hr submersable pump in the bottom which the outlet is connected through the drain hole at the bottom where the tap should be and a hole drilled into the lid with a large plastic water fitting screwed into the lid, the cable is threaded through a small hole in the top and secured with hotmelt glue. The pump is covered with stainless mesh and the rest is contents of a large bag of filter wool, you could use 1/2 a barrel of bio balls then the filter wool ontop if you want to. If pics are wanted i can supply them. and it cost me a total of $130 Terry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john1 Posted March 28, 2003 Report Share Posted March 28, 2003 Hi peet There are plenty on the net. All types. Try this one, similar to fatman. http://pub64.ezboard.com/fboroniaaquariuminteractivepagesfrm14.showMessage?topicID=48.topic John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shilo Posted March 28, 2003 Report Share Posted March 28, 2003 As John said there are plenty of plans around: http://www.cyberreefguru.com/diy/guide/diy_section2.html http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/wetdry.htm http://www.aaquaria.com/aquasource/mattenfilter.shtml http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/grumpygr/Mitsy%20Barrel.htm http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/grumpygr/main%20site/corrofilt.htm http://www.fishlinkcentral.com/articles/article023.htm http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/grantglazer/Aquarium/Tricklefilter.htm Everybody has their idea of the best type of filter, and when it comes to DIY the options for changing and improving a design are unlimited. You will probably end up with different types for the saltwater and freshwater tanks. Don’t read one review on a system and decide to build it, research it as much as possible and choose which conflicting opinion you think is correct. If somebody slams a particular filter it may be because it didn’t work for their particular setup (or not built right etc), or if somebody sings the praises of a design they may have not tried the alternatives. But my opinion: Freshwater - Wet Dry Filter with a prefilter built in, Saltwater - Skimmer then a Fluidized Bed Filter and Algae Scrubber in the sump. Of course I have only ever tried HOB"s and W/D filters. :-? Cheers Shilo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john1 Posted March 29, 2003 Report Share Posted March 29, 2003 Hi peet I made a quick and dirty damn cheap DIY cannister-type filter. You don't need a drawing. I can explain it here. All I uses was a readily available Insectspray (Gardensprayer), The one you can pump up. That's the part you don't need. It has two inlets, and a safetyvalve build in. Take out the pump and put it aside. You get ALL fitings and hosed with that type of sprayer. The supplied aluminium pipe can be replace with a stiff pvc or other pipe if you are afraid of alu. Put the stiff pipe all the way down into the container, bend it so that it is somewhere in the middle. Fill it up with whatever you fancy. 3/4 the way, sand, gravel, filterwool... whatever. Hook up a powerhead. the input is in the tank, the output goes to the inletpipe of your cannister. The outputhose goes back into the tank. The Sprayers cost from $14 to $40. If it does not work as you think it should, you lost NOTHING, except 1/2 to 1 hour work. The sprayer can still be used for what it was designed. A cheap, quick to build DIY cannister. By the way, all the fittings are absolutely watertight straight from the box. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caryl Posted March 29, 2003 Report Share Posted March 29, 2003 Thanks for that John. I never thought of using one of those sprayers. Might give it a go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john1 Posted March 29, 2003 Report Share Posted March 29, 2003 Hi Here is a quickie.What you see is a 7 liter one made by Hills The inlet comes from a pump or powerhead. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peet Posted March 30, 2003 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2003 Man if anyone else is keen on DIY you should check out the sites Jonn1 put up, the last site is soooooo good, think ill be trying a couple of different ones, see what works best. Cheers for the replies Peet ps Would anyone have any Idea why my genio cannister would not be operating at its rated flowrate. I have cleaned all pipes, and tested without media and it has made very little difference. According to a local pump mechanic, impellar pumps either work or they dont. Plus can one buy a new pump in this country??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peety Posted March 30, 2003 Report Share Posted March 30, 2003 I made 2 tanks with trickle/wet/dry/refuge. I loaded one with marine and one tropical. I found the marine worked a treat but don't think the tropical suited as much as my canister. JMHO. Hope it helps. BTW, is the tank you describe one main tank, infront of a planted tropical? I had that idea a while ago and wondered if it had been done. Just a thin tank with tropical plants as a background with a main foreground tank? :-? :-? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peet Posted March 30, 2003 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2003 Hey right click on my icon, save picture and then zoom on it - thats the tank setup Im talking about Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peety Posted March 30, 2003 Report Share Posted March 30, 2003 Its a bit blurry, but not what I was thinking of.... I thought a marine tank in front of a thinner tropical would be quite good. It would give the impression of vegetation in the tank along with colourful marine fish. I reckon you could blend the two quite easily since the marine reef would mask the bottom.... just an idea I might try one day..... anyone seen something like this done? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john1 Posted March 30, 2003 Report Share Posted March 30, 2003 Hi peety The claimed output of a manufacturer is correct. But how is it measured? Firstly an american unit claims 200l/h. That's with 60Hz. 3600RPM. In other countries where they have 50Hz then the speed of the motor/impeller is only 3000RPM. That's 20% less to begin with. Then, how high/low is the pump? At tank level is has the highest output. When you put it for instance on the floor, let's say 1.2m, then is has to overcome that also. Furthermore, what sort of media is in it? Packed filterwool in all baskets would render it almost useless to start with. There you have it. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peety Posted March 30, 2003 Report Share Posted March 30, 2003 I never thought of that... do they rate throughput on a water level basis .... if so I don't know o0f any tank where the filter has been leveled with the tank....yet it does make some sort of sense for measurement..... peety(not peet) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john1 Posted March 30, 2003 Report Share Posted March 30, 2003 Hi peety Just a little hint. A cannister filter is usually on the floor. BUT, it can also hang on the side or back of the tank. If that is the case, then hardly any water has to be pumped up or down. I have an outside hang on filter. The claimed output is 1250l/h. The amount of uplift of the water depends on the lenght of the intake tube. Short intake tube-lots of lift. I bought a powerhead to put inside a 20l container to lift the water into my tank. For waterchange purposes. I have a sore back. Slipped disk. The claimed lift is 1.2 m. The lift is not more than 40cm, and then it is only a trickle. So I gave up on that idea. For that purpose I would need a powerful bilge-pump. Should you have or get hold of a powerhead, then immerse it into the bathtub, attach a tube to the outlet and lift the tube upwards. You'll be surprised how little the flow teally is. Try it. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shilo Posted March 30, 2003 Report Share Posted March 30, 2003 The packaging on pumps can be deceiving. The pumps I use have a 1000ltr / hr rating at outlet (max height 1.4m). At the 1.2m height from my sump to the top of the tank I get 312ltr / hr. At 1.4m there will probably only be a dribble. Constrictions in the tubes (narrow exit etc) and sharp bends will also lessen the end result. To increase my turnover I simply installed a 2nd one. To choose how powerful a pump you will need: http://www.aquariumpros.com/articles/headpress.shtml (of course some manufacturers may "stretch" their measurements more then others) Heres some golden rules of plumbing a pump: http://www.aquariumpros.com/articles/pumptips.shtml Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john1 Posted March 30, 2003 Report Share Posted March 30, 2003 Hi shilo Perfect answer with that link. But if you have a second person holding a bucket, lets say 10 liters, then hold the bucket in the same height/level of the tank level. Use a stopwatch and see how long it takes to fill 10 liters. No more complicated headpressure calculations or anything like that. A simple and ACCURATE answer. JOhn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shilo Posted March 30, 2003 Report Share Posted March 30, 2003 True John1, and that is how I measured my flow (when it flows back from the tank into the sump). But when building a system it is handy to know how much head you need before spending big $$$ on a pump. There would be nothing worse then building a DIY filter only to have to rebuild it because the pump is to weak, or worse transforming your peaceful tank into a whitewater rapid I was almost lucky and stumbled on a workable size when I brought my 1st one, I had wanted 2x this power thus the 2nd pump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted March 30, 2003 Report Share Posted March 30, 2003 I had a look at a handful of pond pumps a few days ago and it looks like most of them only lost about 1/5th of their flow at 1.5M head. Going by the manufacturer's rating anyway. I don't remember the max of them, but this was for a couple different makes and models with flow rates from 1500ish-4000ish L/Hr, looked like all of them were 1/4th to 1/5th less. Ummm...Maybe not relevant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted March 30, 2003 Report Share Posted March 30, 2003 Interesting. Here is something to keep in mind. The MAX HEAD relationship that pump makers advertise is based on pumping water from a 0 pressure source UP to the MAX HEAD amount. This is fine for pumps but it changes significantly for canister filters than have PRESSURE supplied by the tank (assuming is above). Canister filers actually pump less water if above the tank than bellow it. This is bacue of their sealed nature, they get to use syphen 'action' to help power the water flow. If you just gravity fed the water down, and then pumped it up, using the same filter, water flow would be DRASTICALY reduced. There is lots of maths on this subject, and I am not smart enough to expalin it all. But if you really want to know exatcly how it all works, try this: http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2002-05/r ... /index.htm Its a good article (the 2nd of 3). May help you out if you need to be more precise with you pump selection, or if you DIY your owen filter. You will need a more powerful pump if its not sealed (sump / wet/dry). Pies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john1 Posted March 30, 2003 Report Share Posted March 30, 2003 Hi Pies Most interesting. Filed the url away. Thanks a heap. Can't have too many infos like that. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john1 Posted March 31, 2003 Report Share Posted March 31, 2003 Hi Caryl Just thought of something. You showed some interest regarding that DIY filter. As any cannister filter owner knows, one puts the ceramic noodles last. (biological filtration). The reason is, you only want clean water for it. Think about it, one Flugal or Eheim without the ceramic or whatever, only mechanical filtration of your choice, then fill the DIY container with ceramic noodles. The water gets initially cleaned by the Fluval/Eheim. Then the clean water gets pumped into the DIY container full of biological goodies. Any filter change gets done whenever neccessary, but only in the cannister. The biological one could be ther for more than a year with all the bacteria still intact. Have a think about it. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deranglerhaken Posted December 18, 2004 Report Share Posted December 18, 2004 Check out the "Hamburger Mattenfilter" just put it into google search can't remember the websites.very popular in germany and yankee land befor all the hightech crab came in. It a 5cm porous filterfoam(little bit hard to get here in Kiwiland) It works like magic never have to clean it.And you can plant it so it blends in.Worth looking at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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