PENEJANE Posted December 19, 2005 Report Share Posted December 19, 2005 Well I have decided that I am going to give this a go I was wondering if an internal filter will still be ok? Or would it rust out? My husband is working on a chiller so I will let you know more about that as I know more The tank is a 2ft (60Lx30Dx50H) It has a fluro in the hood. Do I need any special tube for cold water marine or would the light thats in there be ok? Its a 15w 6500K tube. We are going to put a couple of computer extracter fans in the hood to suck out any heat that the fluro might create as there is glass between the light and water. I am looking into getting rocks from the beach that already have things growing on it. Is there anything that I can use to stick these rocks together to form a mountain of rocks while the rocks are still wet? as I don't want to dry the rocks and kill any of the things on it. Thought of drying the areas with a towel and then applying the silicon but would this be enough to allow them to stick? I also want to know about seaweed? Would it be a good or bad thing to add some of this to the tank? Some of the animals I have read like to live in the seaweed (like the triple fins). I am going to be collecting things from Bluff, Colic Bay and Monkey Island. Once the guppies are moved out (sold) I will take photos of my progress and how things have worked for me for others to use. Cheers. **wonders off** now to get rid of these guppies and their several thousand fry!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feelers Posted December 19, 2005 Report Share Posted December 19, 2005 Hey PENEJANE, I'm also doing the same thing as you. I wouldnt use an internal filter, I think they are too small and in a saltwater setup they need to be cleaned every few days apparantly. The rocks from the beach are sweet to put in, but remember that they wont have much surface area for filtration, even so try to get the most porus rocks you can. I dont think the lighting will matter - anything that lights up the tank and looks good will be fine. That does mean that seaweed probably isnt a good idea, I dont know its lighting requirements but I imagine it would die pretty quickly, along with any other photosynthectic organisms. Are you going to be running a skimmer? For biofiltration a cannister might be acceptable - although not the best. Perhaps an U/G filter would be a good idea - since it sounds like you are interested in fish the water parameters can be reasonably lax. Are you going to put sand in? If you put a deep enough sand bed it can provide a good deal of filtration. Do you know what you want to keep in there? Most of the rock pool animals are pretty tough I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted December 19, 2005 Report Share Posted December 19, 2005 Sounds good! For sticking rocks together while wet some LFS sell a product, but you could also just use sand & cement if you are careful. Mix real strong, (1 cement 2 sand) so it will set fast, leave rocks out of the water for a few hours but mist them so stuff won't die. Then fill gently with water & do 100% water changes for each of the next few days. Lights, 6,500k is fine for the livestock, but looks a bit yellow to us. 10,000k is more pleasing to the eye. How many watts? You'll need quite a lot, 40 watts absolute minimum but 80 watts better. Computer fans excellent idea. But have them blowing rather than sucking, so there is air actually blowing down on the water surface. Seaweed, yes. But this is light dependant, and for a number of other reasons also may do poorly. But what the heck it's free, if it dies just remove it. Try many different types you may get a few that work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feelers Posted December 19, 2005 Report Share Posted December 19, 2005 Wasp do you know anything about the lighting requirements of seaweed? I imagine "real"(ie metal halides ect) lighting is required? Are there low light species? I had thought about this but had written it off. Do you think PJ will need live rock aswell? Its very hard to get quantative data on bio filtration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PENEJANE Posted December 19, 2005 Author Report Share Posted December 19, 2005 Well for the seaweed I was thinking of just small bits that are stuck to the rock and keeping it pretty high up so it is closer to the light. I am not wanting a large bunch of it or anything like that. We have a lot of red and pink coloured seaweed down here and also some really cool looking bright green so I will see what I can pickup My biggest problem at the moment is removing the guppies that are currently housed in the tank that I am wanting to use lol and all the plants. The filter I have is an Aqua One PF-603 Power Liquid Filter. If this isn't enough of its own how about two of these filters? I would of thought that using sand on an undergravel filter would just clog it up with the sand going through the slots? Or do I put something else over it? But I am going to try with the filters first as I am hoping to hide them behind the rocks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caryl Posted December 19, 2005 Report Share Posted December 19, 2005 For seaweed we gathered 'sea lettuce' as the fish loved it and it was home to lots of little critters which were added food when put in the tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted December 19, 2005 Report Share Posted December 19, 2005 Wasp do you know anything about the lighting requirements of seaweed? I imagine "real"(ie metal halides ect) lighting is required? Are there low light species? I had thought about this but had written it off. Do you think PJ will need live rock aswell? Its very hard to get quantative data on bio filtration. Yes when I had a cold water marine, of the same size as PeneJane, some seaweeds did OK under 80 watts floro. Don't ask me the name though I don't know. Yes I think she will need LR also. But as you suggest, a decent sand bed will provide some denitrification. I'd go just a sand bed without a ugf. Put it this way the stuff she's putting in is free, so she can experiment. Eventually though to have success, I think she will end up with LR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PENEJANE Posted December 20, 2005 Author Report Share Posted December 20, 2005 What is wrong with rocks that already have things on it? The two pieces of rock that I have at the moment (thanks to my daughter she didn't want me to put back the triple fin that she caught) has spiny tubeworms on it as well as the good old modest barnacles. There is also a number of chitons. Which I have seen one move from the rock and is currently stuck to the mussel shell lol. There is a book that I got out called Southland's Rocky Shore and it has a number of spots for school field trips. It tells you how to get to these places and what to expect there. Monkey Island and Colic Bay seem to be the best spots for me to go to. As for the sand bed how deep do I need it to be as I have noticed that the crab likes to dig up the sand and burrow under the rock. I was thinking maybe 3-4 inches of sand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livebearer_breeder Posted December 20, 2005 Report Share Posted December 20, 2005 When i had a Cold water marine the only crabs that ever survived where those ones that have all the seaweed etc growing on there body's, was awesome camouflage. All the others never lived long. I had a 100l tank, with rocks that had different types of sea plant and algae’s and little critters growing and living in or on it, I got a bunch of greyish gravel from the beach. I had a bunch of different colour triple fins, a bunch of different anemone’s (white, red, green, pink, orange). 10 Shrimp, a few flatworm type creatures and a black sea slug. A 15watt single fluro, a small 600LPH power head and a little fan that was faced downwards into the current. I also got a lot of Snails (kept the tank clean and also provided food if I crushed them) and those Velvet stars, which the crabs fed on. Shae Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PENEJANE Posted December 20, 2005 Author Report Share Posted December 20, 2005 I have to say that I haven't seen sea slugs. I don't know what is available at the places that I am hoping to go to when I do finaly get this setup. I am hoping to find some different coloured triple fins. How many triple fins could I safely have in a 90ltr tank? Would it be wise for me to remove the glass plates at the top of the tank? The tank does have a black plastic hood that holds the light in it. So I want fans blowing on to the water surface? I am hoping to eventualy do this as a diary thing with what I got and how things are going as well as photos (Or links to photos) from my rock setup to even crab photos or something lol. Good excuse to get a good camera Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PENEJANE Posted December 20, 2005 Author Report Share Posted December 20, 2005 Since I only have the one 20ltr bucket, am I able to full the tank with the marine salt mix and a bucket of natural sea water? All my water changes after then will be done with one bucket of natural sea water cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted December 20, 2005 Report Share Posted December 20, 2005 Edit - double post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livebearer_breeder Posted December 20, 2005 Report Share Posted December 20, 2005 I am hoping to find some different coloured triple fins. How many triple fins could I safely have in a 90ltr tank? Would it be wise for me to remove the glass plates at the top of the tank? The tank does have a black plastic hood that holds the light in it. So I want fans blowing on to the water surface? I would only suggest 4 triple fins, leaves room for other creatues, although its up to you, they can actually grow quite big. Unless you want to be cleaning the crust of the glass lid all the time i would remove it. The only reason i had a little fan was because i did not have a chiller, I had the power head setup so the water output would brake the surface slightly, and be cooled by the fan. I did water changes once every two weeks, and did a single freshwater top up every week. I used straight saltwater from Island bay so im not sure about salt mix, but im assuming done right you should'nt have an issue. In Summer, because it got hot, the fan was not enough. We have a big freezer in the garage so i just used to freeze salt water in ice cube trays and dump them in. Temp always sat nicely at 12c, which is what i wanted. Pene, are you diving or snorkling to capture this stuff? If you did, you would be able to catch a lot more than just the basic rockpool stuff. Thats how i got my sea slugs and other creatures. Shae Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PENEJANE Posted December 20, 2005 Author Report Share Posted December 20, 2005 HAHAHAHA Shae unless I can find a super thick wetsuit (like 20mm thick!!) I doubt that I would be snorkling or diving in the southern ocean! Even with my own blubber it isn't enough haha so yes I will be sticking to rock pools and the shallow water (knee deep). To help with the cooling of the water my husband said he is working on that but for added affect I will do what you said you did or the other one is to float frozen bottles of normal water. Since it is caped the normal water won't mix with the salt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livebearer_breeder Posted December 20, 2005 Report Share Posted December 20, 2005 To help with the cooling of the water my husband said he is working on that but for added affect I will do what you said you did or the other one is to float frozen bottles of normal water. Since it is caped the normal water won't mix with the salt. Ive never found the bottle method effective, i did try that to start with. Shae Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caryl Posted December 20, 2005 Report Share Posted December 20, 2005 Frozen bottles only work short term and make your freezer run double time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PENEJANE Posted December 20, 2005 Author Report Share Posted December 20, 2005 Ok guess its Frozen Salt Water then Hmmm wonder where I can get a cheap chest freezer from to house all the water lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted December 20, 2005 Report Share Posted December 20, 2005 I found frozen bottles of water completely useless. No noticable effect on the tank's temp(This was a tropical) and I had to replace the bottle every 20-30 minutes. Took several hours to freeze. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misnoma Posted December 20, 2005 Report Share Posted December 20, 2005 Given the bottles float - all their heat exchange is most likely with the air (easier to change the temp of than water). So yes, chances are you won't notice any difference really at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PENEJANE Posted January 7, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2006 Damn hand to hunt this post up lol. I was wondering if I was to have lights on my tank, one for day and one of thoes moonlight ones, does the moonlight ones run all night? I know I don't need any lights at all but thought I may as well do what I can to make the tank look good. The tank should be ready to start setting up next weekend. I swaped my guppies for a 2 1/2 ft tank and all I have had to spend so far is $11 for a tube of silicon to redo the seals as the old ones were lifting off the glass. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livebearer_breeder Posted January 7, 2006 Report Share Posted January 7, 2006 I didn't have a Moontube, but Newtman did, and it looked really good. Shae Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PENEJANE Posted January 7, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2006 so if I was to use a moontube would I leave it on all night? Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livebearer_breeder Posted January 8, 2006 Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 I am no expert on this matter. Something to remember is fish cannot blink, therefore they need the dark in order to sleep, so my opinion would be, have the normal light on until dusk, then turn on the moontube until you go to bed, that way you will also see things that wouldn't come out in the daylight. Shae Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slappers Posted January 8, 2006 Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 mine come on at 200pm off at 11pm works good for me fish ant moaning either Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PENEJANE Posted January 11, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2006 Ok for the chillers I don't have a price yet but I will be going back friday afternoon (hope to get them friday morning) to get prices and other specs. So far the info I have is for up to 100ltr, 300, 500 and 1,000. So thats all I have for now and I will find out as much info as I can friday afternoon. They should come out of customs tomorrow they hope. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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