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It CAN be done. Pretty SPS tank with DSB


wasp

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WOW! What a surprise a nice looking SPS tank and a DSB!!! And I was told it couldn't be done...

It won't last forever, sooner or later problems will occur, just like in all those public aquariums which failed.

Sure it's good when it's in a absorption mode, but when it kicks into leak mode, the problems start, slowly but surely.

Layton

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Stirring a sand bed is bad though isn't it? It disturbs the oxygen gradients (which is what causes them to leak eventually), which would stop any denitrification which may be going on, turning the bed oxic.

There have been numerous people who have tried to make sand beds stop what they do (cycling nutrients) with all sorts of methods, some successfull, others not even close.

Layton

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Wow, that is a very nice SPS tank (regardless of what substrate is implemented).

Wasp, is it stated in the thread how old it is with that sand bed and what his/her maintenance routine is?

As for personal preference, I do agree with Layton that the thick band of sand across the bottom is an eyesore. If I were to set up a DSB tank, I would certainly have that hidden.

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Stirring a sand bed is bad though isn't it? It disturbs the oxygen gradients (which is what causes them to leak eventually), which would stop any denitrification which may be going on, turning the bed oxic.

There have been numerous people who have tried to make sand beds stop what they do (cycling nutrients) with all sorts of methods, some successfull, others not even close.

Layton

No, stirring the bed removes craploads of detritus, Mainly harmless into the water column which is then thrown down the overflow.

It also removes oxic areas allowing them to build up again.

(Air bubble release whilst stirring).

This process also feeds the corals as small microplankton is in this "dirty water column" for a short time and has obviously got lots of little greebly's now floating around.

Feeding time once every 6 odd weeks.

(In fact I can see my Chromis eating the stuff when I do it).

Too much stirring can cause the opposite, in fact RTN if done too often.

(Not sure why), probably continual dirty water flowing over them all the time.

I run a sponge filter prior to stirring to remove the big particles prior to skimming the rest.

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No, stirring the bed removes craploads of detritus, Mainly harmless into the water column which is then thrown down the overflow.

It's anything but "harmless".

It also removes oxic areas allowing them to build up again.

(Air bubble release whilst stirring).

Look up the definition of oxic. What you've said doesn't make sense. Also those bubbles aren't air.

This process also feeds the corals as small microplankton is in this "dirty water column" for a short time and has obviously got lots of little greebly's now floating around.

It feeds a lot of stuff, not just corals.

Feeding time once every 6 odd weeks.

(In fact I can see my Chromis eating the stuff when I do it).

Too much stirring can cause the opposite, in fact RTN if done too often.

(Not sure why), probably continual dirty water flowing over them all the time.

I would have though the more often the better. After all the cleaner the bed, the fewer problems it will cause?

This is the reason I posted info on sand beds. It's not to abuse people who use them, it's so people know how they actually work, and what they are actually doing. Because there is a lot of absolute rubbish spouted by "experts" in the hobby circles. You just have to look at the evidence in nature, as well as the hundreds and hundreds of scientist which have studied these environments, who all come to the same conclusion on what they do.

Layton

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Wow, that is a very nice SPS tank (regardless of what substrate is implemented).

Thanks for the honesty

Wasp, is it stated in the thread how old it is with that sand bed and what his/her maintenance routine is?

The particular thread I got the pics from is here http://zeovit.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4396

Does not have much info in this thread but if you wish you could research Reeftech.

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It's anything but "harmless".

Look up the definition of oxic. What you've said doesn't make sense. Also those bubbles aren't air.

It feeds a lot of stuff, not just corals.

I would have though the more often the better. After all the cleaner the bed, the fewer problems it will cause?

This is the reason I posted info on sand beds. It's not to abuse people who use them, it's so people know how they actually work, and what they are actually doing. Because there is a lot of absolute rubbish spouted by "experts" in the hobby circles. You just have to look at the evidence in nature, as well as the hundreds and hundreds of scientist which have studied these environments, who all come to the same conclusion on what they do.

Layton

hi layton,

how is your tank coming along? any pic's? just to show the DSB guy's how a "real" tank looks with lots of growing acro's and the lot. you know the stuff you frag and sell or give to other reefers. :wink:

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how is your tank coming along? any pic's? just to show the DSB guy's how a "real" tank looks with lots of growing acro's and the lot. you know the stuff you frag and sell or give to other reefers.

I second that!!!! Layton your quick to put down DSB we all see your dislike for them from your comments . show us you tank :evil: . By the way there are plenty of DSB tanks that have been running for ten plus years with no stirring you need to do your homework As you chemical lessons don't cut it.And if you do show some pics make sure they are yours this time!!!
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Do you think its possible to have 1 thread on this site that doesn't revert into constant arguements about sandbeds. Its all been said, DSB work regardless of what Layton has said previously, its a fact, this tank is just one of many that proves it. We have heard both sides of the "arguement", its time to change the record.

Pie

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I second that!!!! Layton your quick to put down DSB we all see your dislike for them from your comments . show us you tank :evil: .

I'm not putting DSB's down. Just showing how they work and what they do. Some animals couldn't care less about them cycling nutrients, but for others it can kill them.

By the way there are plenty of DSB tanks that have been running for ten plus years with no stirring you need to do your homework As you chemical lessons don't cut it.

:roll: Where's YOUR homework? Here's mine:

Effect of emersion and immersion on the porewater nutrient dynamics of an intertidal sandflat in Tokyo Bay, Estuarine, Coastal and Shelf Science, Volume 57, Issues 5-6, August 2003, Pages 929-940

Tomohiro Kuwae, Eiji Kibe and Yoshiyuki Nakamura

Sediment oxygen consumption and vertical flux of organic matter in the Seto Inland Sea, Japan, Estuarine, Coastal and Shelf Science, Volume 56, Issue 2, February 2003, Pages 213-220

Y. Nakamura

Assay of phosphatase activity and ATP biomass in tideland sediments and classification of the intertidal area using chemical values, Marine Pollution Bulletin, Volume 47, Issues 1-6, January-June 2003, Pages 5-9

Ken-ichi Nakamura and Chieko Takaya

Degree of pollution for marine sediments, Engineering Geology, Volume 53, Issue 2, June 1999, Pages 131-137

M. Fukue, T. Nakamura, Y. Kato and S. Yamasaki

Water Research

Volume 36, Issue 4 , February 2002, Pages 1007-1017

Phosphorus Budget as a water quality management tool for Closed aquatic mesocosms

Advances in Environmental Research

Volume 6, Issue 2 , March 2002, Pages 135-142

Field measurements of SOD and sediment nutrient fluxes in a land-locked embayment in Hong Kong

K. W. Chaum

Water Science & Technology Vol 42 No 3-4 pp 265–272 © IWA Publishing 2000

Non-steady variations of SOD and phosphate release rate due to changes in the quality of the overlying water

T Inoue, Y Nakamura and Y Adachi

Water Science and Technology Vol 30 No 10 pp 263–272 © IWA Publishing 1994

Effect of flow velocity on phosphate release from sediment

Yoshiyuki Nakamura

Effects of Benthic Flux on Short Term Variations of Nutrients

in Aburatsubo Bay

KAZUFUMI TAKAYANAGI and HISASHI YAMADA

Marine Pollution Bulletin

Volume 20, Issue 12 , December 1989, Pages 624-628

Alteration of phosphorus dynamics during experimental eutrophication of enclosed marine ecosystems

Kenneth R. Hinga

Author/Editor/Inventor

Hopkinson Charles S, Jr [a]; Giblin Anney E; Tucker Jane; Garritt Robert H.

Institution

[a] Ecosystems Center, Marine Biological Laboratory, Woods Hole, MA, 02543 USA.

Title (English)

Benthic metabolism and nutrient cycling along an estuarine salinity gradient.

Smolders, A.J.P.; Lamers,L.P.M.; Moonen, M; Zwaga, K; Roelofs, J.G.M. 2001. Controlling phosphate release from phosphate-enriched sediments by adding various irons compounds. Biogeochemistry, 54(2): 219-228.

Ye, Y; Tam, N.F.Y; Wong, Y. S. 2001. Livestock Wastewater Treatment by a Mangrove Pot-cultivation System and the Effect of Salinity on the Nutrient Removal Efficiency. Marine Pollution Bulletin, 42(6): 512-520.

http://www.aoml.noaa.gov/ocd/sferpm/szm ... Final.html

http://www.aoml.noaa.gov/ocd/sferpm/szm ... rlson.html

http://www.botany.hawaii.edu/Bot482/Kan ... 20Biol.pdf

http://www.agralin.nl/wda/abstracts/ab1555.html

http://www.fknms.nos.noaa.gov/research_ ... _paper.pdf

http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:N9V ... n&ie=UTF-8

http://www.bae.ncsu.edu/programs/extens ... /phos.html

http://enterprise.canberra.edu.au/WWW/W ... enDocument

http://www.soest.hawaii.edu/~edecarlo/spatntemp.pdf

http://www.gbrmpa.gov.au/corp_site/info ... rients.pdf

http://www.montana.edu/ecology/courses/ ... phorus.doc

http://www.ozestuaries.org/indicators/I ... nts_f.html

http://www.ebc.uu.se/norr.malma/researc ... phorus.pdf

Even A Book:

http://www.springer.com/sgw/cda/frontpa ... ww.wkap.nl

Like shooting fish in a barrel (so to speak).

Layton

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Zeovit makes Acro's colours look weak

big call cracker, go to zeovit.com and tell me that those colours are "weak". go to jetski's house and tell me his acro's look "weak". nothing personal, but thats such a typical type of comment on this site. someone see's ONE example and turns that into general consensus. :roll:

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Parts of my tank have a DSB and parts are BB - one of my fish has it’s own ideas as to how the sand I do have (nominally 3cm over front section of tank) should be arranged and gets very aggravated when I smooth it out to cover the bald areas it has carefully prepared.

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hello everyone

first i want to thank you all for your interest in my tank,i am very humbled to be invited to this discussion.

before anything i have to say i am no expert or marine biologist,i am engineer from vancouver canada with no background in aquarium hobby or caring for any live animals(bigcity boy). i used to live in germany till i was 10 ,i still go back a couple of times a year to see fam & firends so i always seen reeftanks around,big tanks that were running on a plenum for 15 years(high maintanance) i was always mesmorized however it was too much biology than technology for me so i always stayed away,afew years back i saw some tanks that were all automated & they could actualy test for the parameters they are trying to maintain,it was not all guessing there are actually different ways of maintaing marine biotopes today(as much as we do not know much about them),mechanicly &electronicly with acceptable level of success.

so i started my reeftank 2 years ago with 3 things in mind maximum automation,no visible manmade equipment in sight&most natural (parameters,lighting,positionning,etc)envoirment for animals

tank & equipment

72 gal bowfront/10gal sump /10gal refugium/40 gal prop tank(was just added to system last month) about 145 gal whole system with plummimg

2x 400 w xm 10k (7 hrs) ,2x 54w t5 (1x10k&1x actinic 9 hrsk) 2x96w pc actinic (12 hrs) ( 1100 w total on 4' long tank) 65w on refuge

calcium(cr 422) rx on pinpoint ph controller & second chamber

auto topoff(ro/di water)

circulation 1x tunze 6100 on controller(3175 gal/hr) & 4x maxijets(4x300 gal/hr) return from sump 900 gal/hr

euroreefskimmer for 110 gal

ozone 200 mg/hr on controller injected into skimmer

rowaphos reactor ,18 w uv on return from sump

1/4 horse power chiller,heaters

70lb of mixed rock & dsb 3" front to 6" in back area ,dsb in refugium with grape caulerpa lights on 24/7

no bioload in prop tank no rock just 40 gal extra water with478 w of light &lots of flow

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ph 8.2

alk 9 dkh

ca 430 ppm

mg 1350 ppm

sg 1.025

temp 78-79 f

orp 380 mv

po4 p03 amo,nitrate,etc not detectable with salifert

these are my parameters now however i had my alk @ 12 dkh for 6 months with no sideeffects that i could detect

waterchange 15% weekly carbon changed @ 1l/week rowaphos 130 g/month kent salt

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