Cath Posted November 12, 2005 Report Share Posted November 12, 2005 Well there was me bragging about never having had to use chemicals and all of a sudden for the first time since having fish - over a year now- I got the dreaded white spot in 2 of neons and in my 2 beautiful rams! As soon as I saw it I borrowed some of the brooklends treatment from a friend, tossed 80 drops into my 80cm x 40 x40 tank watched it go dark and left it for 3 days at 29". Today I've cleaned the tank and done a water change. The white spot is still on the fish. They all look bright enough but how long does it take to dissappear and when should I dose the tank again. As the tank is heavily planted it's not feasible to take the plants out - I gather the bug harbours itself in the plants. Have I given them enough? Is there a more effective cure??? Can I have some chocolate now? Cheers and thanks in advance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caryl Posted November 12, 2005 Report Share Posted November 12, 2005 Here is what pegasus said to someone else with a white spot problem... We realise you must be stressed out at this time.. but you need to understand that there is no "overnight cure" for white spot.. and moreso in the case of treating cold water fish. To understand the cycle that the white spot goes through see here.... http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/grumpy ... 0cycle.htm We can see that in the first stage that the fish gets infected. This can be due to all manner of reasons.. from stress to chills.. to being run down.. or through the introduction of other fish, plants, or anything else that could hold the parasite... even a single drop of water from an infected tank can pass it on. Once these little pests get on the fish they start to feed, and will stay on the fish until such times as they are full and ready to drop off. Heat will speed this process up... but at 21C this could take quite some time.. perhaps a week or more.. and "nothing" you pour in the tank will kill it off. Once they are full they will drop from the fish.. but during this time they are removing all the energy and stamina that the fish has... so the quicker they are removed the better. Once they leave the fish.. then THIS is the ONLY time they are vunerable to any medications.. so it is at this point that you need to get the treatments going. Because these parasites drop from the fish, they are now able to reproduce very quickly, so the more of them you can remove through water changes the better. Siphon the gravel to do this, and take care to dump the water in a safe place. If you hit them at the right time, (when they are off the fish).. then you should erradicate them. Now, go and eat a whole family block of chocolate to calm yourself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted November 12, 2005 Report Share Posted November 12, 2005 The white spots you see on the fish are a cyst and are not killed by the treatment, it is the next stage in the life cycle that can be treated hence the advice to wind the temperature up. This speeds up the life cycle and makes available the vulnerable free swimming stage to be killed. The fish is cured when all the spots have dropped off and been killed. There are a number of treatments available that work including malachite green/ acraflavine, copper sulphate, Furan 2 or many others available from the pet shop. Go by the instructions and treat until clear of spots. I find the best way is to observe the fish in the dark with a torch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted November 12, 2005 Report Share Posted November 12, 2005 Brooklands treatment contains 3 ingredients which work on there own so it should be pretty good. The quinine was used for malaria and should give the wee blighters a good fright (does't hurt your plant either) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pegasus Posted November 12, 2005 Report Share Posted November 12, 2005 Do you know, that way back when.. there were very few cures for WS, but the main one was Methelene Blue, which meant you could say "night night" to your fish for around ten days or so, as they were impossible to see. The "other" cure that many would use was the "temp control" method, whereby the temp was gradually increased to around 92F and left there for a couple of days. Extra airation was added.. but if care was taken, then most of the fish survived. The temp was then gradually lowered to normal over the next week. WS can't survive over 90degF.. so this was a cheap no cost cure that allowed you to still see your fish Bill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted November 12, 2005 Report Share Posted November 12, 2005 In a previous life we used to use quinine sulphate because it doesn't knock the plant around. that got replaced by mepacrine hydrachloride. I have used cheelated copper sulphate also but it is pretty rough on some fish including killies. A realy old fella (like 100 not out) told me they used to put pennies in the tank and leave them till the snails crawled out of the water in the good old days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Posted November 12, 2005 Report Share Posted November 12, 2005 Actually, as I understand it, it is not the kill zone of the cysts dropping off the host fish when they are killed. It is when the cysts have incubated off the fish, where ever they have landed, that they burst forth with spores, which head out into the water in search of their new host. THIS is the time that the medicaction does the kill. Not the cysts. You must carry on the treatment for three days after the last of the spots are seen on the fish. Pennies, or copper in the tank is used for prevention of "velvet" disease, one that is very prevalent with the Nothobranchius species of killifish. The snails informed you when the copper levels were heading towards toxic proportions. Alan 104 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted November 12, 2005 Report Share Posted November 12, 2005 Years ago I killed about 400 N. guentheri by treating with copper starting at about 1/8 th max dose. They were dead in minutes. They don't like copper, even cheelated. Alan is correct about what is getting bumped off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pegasus Posted November 12, 2005 Report Share Posted November 12, 2005 Alan said: Actually, as I understand it, it is not the kill zone of the cysts dropping off the host fish when they are killed. Of course you are right Alan.. but as mentioned... .....and "nothing" you pour in the tank will kill it off. As mentioned elsewhere... Heat will kill them.. as will the lack of a host for a day or so.. but the time factor between them dropping from the fish and releasing the Tomites (spores).. is dependent on a few factors.. so unless one wants to take the risk of waiting for the right moment, then the generally accepted time is.... Once they leave the fish.. then THIS is the ONLY time they are vunerable to any medications.. so it is at this point that you need to get the treatments going. ... so what you say is true... ....that they burst forth with spores, which head out into the water in search of their new host. THIS is the time that the medicaction does the kill. Not the cysts. It is the Tomites.. (see drawing).. that are vunerable to the meds... and not the cysts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Posted November 12, 2005 Report Share Posted November 12, 2005 alanmin4304 I was just wondering if you were ever in the NZKA those "many" years ago. If so, what was your number?? Alan 104 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted November 12, 2005 Report Share Posted November 12, 2005 A few of us got together and started a killi club in Christchurch and brought some fish down from the north island. It died after a few years through lack of support about 25 years ago Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Posted November 13, 2005 Report Share Posted November 13, 2005 OK, that was about when I started my long association with the NZKA Alan 104 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cath Posted November 13, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 13, 2005 Thank you guys for your help here. I thought I'd try the temp thing but the thermometor seems to be one that only gets to 28* so there it is. I can't get into town till tomorrow to get more remedy but you can be sure I'll be hitting it hard when I do. IN the mean time no other fish have it yet and the rams, and the neons, apart from those horrid white spots, look full of life. There's no way I'll let this beat me, what a pain, now I realise the importance of a quaratine tank, I think I was very lucky with the fish shop in Masterton where they had a rigorous quarantine regulations and I never got anything bad from them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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