leeves Posted February 8, 2003 Report Share Posted February 8, 2003 The Dreaded Dropsy... I have come to the assumption that my fish have Dropsy. Ive had to dispose of 3 fish now which I believe have all had it some way or form, here is what led me to belive that this was/is the case Most fish have a degree of stomach swelling or bloating, the first fish (mature x-ray tetra) I disposed of had the "pine cone" effect with extruding scales. The second fish (mature platty) I found floating on the water surface on its side, when I went to inspect it it swam away only to return to its side floating position somewhere else in the tank this also had bloating. The third (another xray) I found with an effected swim bladder swollen belly and a tiny bit of pine cone effect. Ive been doing some reading on the condition and it seems there is a lot of differing opinions but mostly all concluding with the rather disheartening fact that its fatal and incurable... Hopefully I have caught it early in the other fish (not all have symptoms) and I can treat them - a lot of suggestions for using sea or cooking salt and antibiotic foods. General opinion is that medications dont seem to help much ?... Has anyone encountered this problem before? I am under the general impression that it is stress related, I recently set up the tank, but hey there could be a multitude other reasons Tomorrow (today) Im gonna go buy some decent test kits ammonia,nitrites,nitrates medications and some decent salt. any help on this would be great Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goldie Posted February 8, 2003 Report Share Posted February 8, 2003 leeves it is really tuff to lose fish at any time. When you have just begun it is harder. How long have you had the tank set up?? I ask for you may be losing the fish because they have been poisoned if the tank has not completely cycled. Getting the test kits for nitrates/nitrites/ammonia & PH is a really wise thing to do. Do you know about the initial cycling that ALL new tanks go through?? Sorry to hear about your fish. :-? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueram Posted February 8, 2003 Report Share Posted February 8, 2003 Hi leeves, Dropsy is a real worry!!! . I had it five years ago and when I kept goldfish. I used to lose about one every six months. This is back in the day that I use to clean my filter with tap water. The books that I have read say that Dropsy is not contagious. Thr best thing to do would be to ensure that your tank is cycled and test as Goldie suggests. Use some salt, not sea or cooking salt. Buy some from your local fish shop. Regards Blueram Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeves Posted February 8, 2003 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2003 Hi goldie I know what your saying about the tank cycling but I didnt have much choice as I took the tank and fish which was already setup so I tried to minimize stress as much as possible through through various means. But the thing is the damage is done or still is doing, and I have to contain it or somehow or stop it from spreading to others... they say that once the fish starts to bloat it is already too late for it and irreversible damage is done internally.It looks to me that a number of fish have swelling already does this mean they are all doomed? But hey I should have the test kits ! I will endeavor to obtain them - anyone recommend an accurate and reliable product....? I guess the thing is it could of been many possibilities and all admittedly MY FAULT FROM A LACK OF PROPER MAINTENANCE but hey Im still learning so mistakes are inevitable :oops: So where do I go from here... Im going to try the salt thing. I was thinking I would go to the supermarket and get a big bag of sea salt and dose the tank I have to do the whole tank as I dont have a separate tank to medicate them as this would be impractical as well too stressing on the whole any way. I hope this thread becomes useful for anyone who has this problem or wil will have in the future... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dambarwa Posted February 9, 2003 Report Share Posted February 9, 2003 Hi there, I recently lost a favorite fish ("Leo") to dropsy and then to my horror I saw it in/on my BN breeding pair!!! After some advice from another forum, I tried Tetracycline. This has seemed to work!! I, stupidly :oops: , did a water change with every dose, not every treatment so I have underdosed. After a week's rest from medications, I've started one last course of Tetracycline. This one won't have daily water changes!! The dropsy can only be seen from really close not even from 1/2ft away! I did hear though; "Dropsy is difficult, NOT impossible" All the best Annie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeves Posted February 9, 2003 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2003 Thanks for the tip Dambarwa I will have to investigate that one. After ringing around and seeing what was recommended I decided to attempt Brooklands tonic salt and Melafix ( This was recommended by a prominent pet/fish store in Auckland) I was a bit reluctant but I had to do it - I had to remove the filter carbon from the filter. With the hard bit over and done with I then administered the directed amount of salt which was like over half the 600g bag (dissolved in water and put in the tank over a two hour period) and the melafix. So no more dead fish yet so that is good I guess. Though saying that all the other fish I disposed of were not dead - but floating contagions... So I will observe and see what happens. I should do a large water change at some time, yes/no? oh one more thing I HATE O-RINGS!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dambarwa Posted February 9, 2003 Report Share Posted February 9, 2003 Hi leeves, I was using Melafix temoprarily when I was out of Tetracycline. It didn't hurt but I don't think it helped much. I've always added Rock Salt too. I'll let you know if/when "Mum'n'Dad" are better. Dropsy is difficult, NOT impossible Annie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fee Posted February 9, 2003 Report Share Posted February 9, 2003 I have had good results with a product called Furan-2, it contains furazolidone, which one of the prefered treatments. it will not save a fish that has already become seriously affected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeves Posted February 10, 2003 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2003 This Tetracycline is this a general antibiotic or is there a fish version?... most info I found was that it was used for human infections...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dambarwa Posted February 10, 2003 Report Share Posted February 10, 2003 Hi leeves, Yes. After I had purchased Tetracycline over the counter at the LFS, I read a small article in a paper which stated that Tetracycline is an old medication that new discoveries have curing some forms of human cancer!!! So, I'd say yep it is for humans, but note that LFS sell it over the counter for dropsy in fish!! I have no idea whether it is needed in different doseages or whether the ingredients or whatever are sightly different or the same. I am not a scientist!!!! :lol: So, I hope that helps. Annie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kriber Posted February 10, 2003 Report Share Posted February 10, 2003 It (tetracycline) isn't just one type of molecule, there are various types that all share the same basic skeleton (Four fused 6-membered rings) eg chlortetracycline, oxytetracycline, tetracycline, demeclocycline, methacycline, doxycycline, minocycline and undoubtably others. In the fish trade any used may well just be referred to as tetracycline or even by a trade name. For tomorrow make sure you have read chpt's 3-5 and be prepared to discuss in class. What brands are you using? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dambarwa Posted February 10, 2003 Report Share Posted February 10, 2003 Hi Kriber, The brand name I'm using is Aqua-Cure. Well, I can only let you all know if this treatment cures "Mum'n'Dad". Here's hopeing!!! As for Discus, beautiful fish they are, I think I'm better off learning to stabalize a basic tank with hardy fish first!! :lol: Annie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caryl Posted February 10, 2003 Report Share Posted February 10, 2003 My doctor showed me an article recently that said they had trouble in some countries with people using fish medication for human ailments as they are the same drugs - but different dosages. As you can imagine, the amount needed to dose a danio would be drastically different to that required for an adult human! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted February 10, 2003 Report Share Posted February 10, 2003 I wouldn't be surprised if the dosages are similar...Except, for the danio you have to add heaps extra to the tank water to get a similar dosage actually going into the fish. Maybe it'd be a good to get a really tiny little needle and inject it with a teeny little bit of medicine... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeves Posted February 10, 2003 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2003 Right Im convinced I gotta try it . Any idea on the price...? Ive added the salt but I was wondering when to either add more or do a water change then add more or just leave it as it is, as it is due for the weekly water change. I dont think any have gotten worse yet, but the plattys that look suspect, well still look like that - suspect. They seem to be the most effected. Is it me or do these fish just seem disease prone? but thanks for the response so far people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dambarwa Posted February 10, 2003 Report Share Posted February 10, 2003 Hi leeves, In Aust. it sells for AU$20.00 for 25 tablets of 400mg each. I've taken to adding some salt anyway, just because warm salt water is a basic 'cure' for everything. I've also heard that it doesn't change or affect the water parameters or medications!!!! So, why not!!!! I don't know about your platies, I thought they were pretty hardy but I could be wrong. :lol: Annie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeves Posted February 12, 2003 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2003 I have not bought any tetracycline yet as Im gonna hold out till the weekend to see if I still need it. I did a water change today and might do another dose of salt before then... :roll: I know it sounds real cruel but if a few more platties drop off Im not gonna be too concerned. :oops: But how about this for a spanner in the works - a pair of my angels have now laid a large clutch off eggs on the filter outlet pipe! There could be between 50-100 eggs on there and they seem to be doing a good job of guarding them too. Its rather good as my previous experiences with another pair of older angels I have always resulted in them both eating the eggs straight away as soon as they were laid the male never fertilised them( I think the male could of been sterile) Great (sigh) now Im gonna have to do more research on how to raise them and feed the babies (if they live) and what not. I will have to start a new thread too. SO Im even more confused now ! Do I try and treat this illness my tank might be carrying or do I just keep it how it is and just cull the suspect fish (platties) as I said before if I lose these fish I wont mind - I would rather have baby angels that swollen platties... :-? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goldie Posted February 12, 2003 Report Share Posted February 12, 2003 Have you thought of having a hospital tank?? Just a small one to put any pick or suspect fish in while treating?? I also use it to quarantine plants n fish after purchase to check them out before adding to my main tanks. This has saved me many a problem. All equipment used in hospital tank is sterilized and kept apart from other equipment (in a bucket LOL). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeves Posted February 12, 2003 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2003 yeah I have but the smallest spare tank I have is 100 litre so I think it would be impractical. Im a bit strapped for cash at the moment and my girlfriend would probably not approve of me spending more money on the fish as Ive been buying misc. items ever since I bought the five footer. Though saying that she probably would like to see little baby angels swimming around I think this spawning will be another learning experience for me and the fish. Im gonna wait till the week end to see which way I go but I will do another salt and melafix dosage. The dropsy/illness does not seem to be progressing so may be Ive given it something to think about.? hmmm... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cat Posted February 18, 2003 Report Share Posted February 18, 2003 Just a little off the subject. I wish my Angels would stop laying!!! I have around 300 at between one month and three months old. And the parents have laid again!! :lol: This pair regularly lay over 100 eggs and raise them without any being eaten. Excellent parents. I know that a good way of stopping this mass production would be to split this pair up but that is not practical at the moment. Every spare tank and heater I have is housing Angel babies!!! I have other tanks with Angels in them but while they are not spawning it is also not the friendliest of tanks. Quite a bit of bickering going on at the moment while they sort out whose girlfriend is who's. I am hoping to sell some to a few pet shops soon so hopefully they will start paying for themselves a little. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dambarwa Posted February 18, 2003 Report Share Posted February 18, 2003 Congratulations Cat!!! Well done on ALL your baby Angels!! Annie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cat Posted February 18, 2003 Report Share Posted February 18, 2003 Thanks. Thought it was amazing the first batch, cool the next, ok the third time and now its "oh my god"!!! :lol: :lol: Still I can always sell them to shops. People always want Angels in their tanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dumotel Posted February 18, 2003 Report Share Posted February 18, 2003 With the hard bit over and done with I then administered the directed amount of salt which was like over half the 600g bag (dissolved in water and put in the tank over a two hour period) and the melafix. Howdy leeves Um, that's a lot of salt! What water volume are you dosing? I certainly don't mean to alarm you, just curious. I think I read it's a 5ft, but that doesn't really tell me much because volume would vary depending on depth and width. What dosage advice did you follow? In anycase, depending on the strength of the solution, I'd be inclined to increase salinity over a period of days rather than hours. Just don't forget that whatever salt you put in will stay in. It doesn't evaporate out, so unless you do a water change, you're constantly increasing salinity. Perhaps you could consider giving your suspect fish quick salt dips in a separate container (obviously one that's not been exposed to detergents etc). Btw, you don't have to buy another fish tank as such in order to have a hospital tank. Maybe you could get a large tub like storage container, u know, those that look like gynormous lunch boxes? That's actually what I'm temporarily housing my fish in till I move house mid-year. It holds 70L which equates to around 17G(U.S). They are way way cheaper than a real tank. Granted, the optical treat isn't so great, but you would be using it as a quarantine/hospital tank not as a show case. Actually, in emergencies, even big clean buckets can be used as temporary housing... though I wouldn't be so inclined for hospital usage. That's only because it's difficult to monitor the fish in something non-transparent Anyways, I hope things are better for you and your finned friends! DuMotel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeves Posted February 18, 2003 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2003 thought I might give you all an update... turns out we cant get Tetracycline for fish at any lfs but only from a vet with a prescription... I was also told that it does not really work any way ... they suggested using Furan II but even this is hit and miss and an expensive gamble. Removing the diseased fish is the only sure fire way of containing it, was the general opinion. So I got rid of most of my platties (who in hind sight might or might not of had it) and one of my large Angels was stricken much to my dismay as it was my largest and most favourite. It had real bad swelling and then loss of swim bladder control until it was floating upside down gasping for breath on the surface. So I got my water tested ph was about 6.5, amonia nill or mininal but nitrites high enough to kill... I bought some Cycle (Nutrafin) and Waste Control (Hagen). I then did a 25 to 30 % water change then added both products. Water looked real clear and fish seemed happier (or maybe that was in my mind) and swelling seems to have gone down too. fingers crossed no more get stricken. Off my own topic here I know but I got no angel fry left they got to wriggling stage with about one quarter of eggs with fungus. Then one night all the wrigglers gone and the whole site cleaned of unhatched eggs all traces of a spawning had dissapeared. I guess someone came in the night and had a feast... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dumotel Posted February 18, 2003 Report Share Posted February 18, 2003 Sorry you've had such a bad run. I was practically inconsolable when I lost a little goldfish a short while back, but u know, even though it majorly sux they die that way, at least we learn something from it so the next fish has it better. I wish you well with the crew you have now. Du Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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