cracker Posted October 21, 2005 Report Share Posted October 21, 2005 Blastomussa merleti Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted October 21, 2005 Report Share Posted October 21, 2005 you have to have the coral, i just dont want any photos,, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted October 22, 2005 Report Share Posted October 22, 2005 Still need photos of these. Heliofungia actiniformis Herpolitha limax Blastomussa Blastomussa loyae Blastomussa merleti Blastomussa wellsi Nemenzophyllia turbida Scolymia australis Scolymia cubensis Scolymia lacera Scolymia vitiensis Scolymia wellsi Millepora Millepora Dichotoma Millepora Playphylla WELLSOHPHYLLIA RADIATA HELIOPORA COERULEA ricordea yuma ricordea florida amplexidiscus fenestrafer discosoma spp rhodactis cf.inchoata rhodactis cf.indonsinensis rhodactis cf.mussoides Klyxum aasp (Alcyonium sp) DENDROPHYLLIA FISTULA /SUN POLYPS (L) LEMNALIA ANTHELIA ALCYONIUM PALMATUS CLAVULARIA VIRIDIS SOLENOPADIUM Lemnalia Rhodactis cf. Indosinensis Discosoma hairy (green) Discosoma sp. (hairy) Metarhodactis sp. (tong) Metarhodactis sp. (green) Amplexid. fenestrafer pro/ear Ricordea florida Ricordia sp. (Indonesia) Ricordia sp. (Indonesia green hermit crab blue linkia star fish gorgonia turbo snails Nassirius Snail SPIROGRAPHIS SPALLANZANII/WHITE FEATHER DUSTER Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feelers Posted October 28, 2005 Report Share Posted October 28, 2005 Hey Reef, got my reply from ERMA today!!!, "Dear Alastair Your email was passed to me as I am currently working with MAF to bring the trade in ornamental fish and invertebrates in line with current law (the Biosecurity Act and the Hazardous Substances and New Organisms (HSNO) Act). The HSNO Act clearly states what is a new organism. The current process from ERMA New Zealand's perspective is to create a list of ornamental fish and invertebrates that currently exist in New Zealand or have existed in the recent past where documentation can be provided as proof. All the organisms will be declared not new and will be permitted entry as long as they meet the biosecurity requirements of MAF under the Biosecurity Act. The ERMA New Zealand list will not be closed so if other species come to light later they can be added. If you wish to bring in new species, that is not on the ERMA list, than you can make an application to do so. There are several options for such an application and I am happy to discuss with you the possibilities. I take note of your suggestion of a prohibited list. This was largely how such matters were regulated before 1998. In passing the HSNO Act Parliament rejected this approach in favour of carrying out a risk assessment of all new species brought into New Zealand. I also agree with your point about tropical corals and I am looking into how an application could be made however I would need a willing applicant. Please accept that we are trying to find workable solutions to the current situation but you must also be aware that we have to administer the law. If you wish to discuss this further please feel free to call me. Regards Geoff Dr Geoff Ridley Science Manager (New Organisms) ERMA New Zealand PO Box 131 Wellington New Zealand What do you make of it reef? Is it stuff you have heard before? He seems like a helpful guy, its quite a long response. I saved my original letter somewhere.......... ill try to find it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feelers Posted October 28, 2005 Report Share Posted October 28, 2005 My original letter, so that the previous reply might make a bit more sense. To whom it may concern, I'm inquiring into the new rules on marine fish and coral imports into New Zealand. As I understand it, each species that is currently in New Zealand that has been confirmed will make the basis of the future allowable import list. Obviously this is detrimental to the diversity of the reef keeping hobby within NZ of which I am a part. What would be required to reverse this process or perhaps re-asses the system that is being introduced on November 15? Obviously the goal of listing species available for import is to prevent new problem species from being introduced into NZ's waters, so I would therefore assume that marine imports have caused some sort of problem in the past. What current problems have been attributed to marine tropical imports? If not, instigating the new rules as a preemptive strike on future problem species seems unnecessary. The process to introduce new tropical fish species , is expensive and time consuming, despite the fact that they are able to receive rapid assessment. Perhaps a system of what is not allowed would be a better solution. Marine hobbyists have operated well under the current system, and I feel are being unfairly treated with regards to the new scheme. If ERMA decides to re-evaluate the current species list in the future, it will most likely lead to a downward spiral in the species available, as with each survey less and less diversity will be possible. Tropical corals who propagate themselves by single cells drifting on ocean currents can land anywhere, and die if they cannot survive, if they could survive in New Zealand, they would be here. I am sure that ERMA agrees that tropical corals pose an incredibly miniscule threat to the marine ecosystem of New Zealand, especially given the fact that they are limited to a small group of hobbyists. The same goes for tropical fish as well, and if they did pose a threat they would not have been given the rapid assessment method of species introduction. I am well aware and respect ERMAs' intentions, however I feel that the proposed system currently being set up is unnecessary given the fact that the marine hobby operated perfectly well within the confines of the current system. Could you please inform me of ways to perhaps change to current proposal, or redirect this email to whoever will help in addressing this situation. Regards, Alastair Brown (Well I'm not a memeber of the reef hobby yet, but poetic liscence. 8) ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted October 28, 2005 Report Share Posted October 28, 2005 Great you got a reply, Nothing new. As ERMA explained it is the law that ERMA has to comply with, and to make any changes involves changing the law which is not practical. Unlikely that you could get any species in without getting they approved, It would take a lot of work and time and based on the response for hobbyist to help with the current project it confirms that many hobbyist are all talk and when it comes down to doing anything you don’t see them again. Current project would have allowed us to add any species that we could get photos off, however due to lack of response just the basic coral will be added as it appears everyone is really happy with it the status quo plus a reduction in about 300-400 fish species. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted October 28, 2005 Report Share Posted October 28, 2005 Unfortunate side effect of having...what? 5% of the people with marine/reef tanks even knowing about it? Even if every single person that knew about it took pics and submitted every single thing they could the majority of what's allowed would be missed out. Either way we're screwed, imo. I admit, I haven't done any of my marine livestock because I don't think I have anything that's uncommon. I have done my cichlids that I could get pics of though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Posted October 28, 2005 Report Share Posted October 28, 2005 Great, thanks Ira. Why not do your corals even though they might be common. Nobody else may have done them yet and there's only 2 weeks left to go... I expect there is a lot of 'Oh it's common, someone else will do it' going on as I've had less than 100 submissions for all species both freshwater and marine. It's not a good look so far. It would appear nobody cares about their hobby and all the time, effort and money spent on it so far... Well, I've done the fish I want to keep, - if you don't care if the fish you want isn't allowed to be imported anymore then don't complain about it in the future if you do nothing about it now. Come on people, get your a's into gear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted October 28, 2005 Report Share Posted October 28, 2005 Unfortunate side effect of having...what? 5% of the people with marine/reef tanks even knowing about it? Even if every single person that knew about it took pics and submitted every single thing they could the majority of what's allowed would be missed out. Either way we're screwed, imo. That is not correct as our fish list is pretty good currently as you cant even get everything that is on the allowable list so losing some is not a big deal. There are many species not on the list which could be added if people actually made the effort to have a look at the items which we are looking for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted October 28, 2005 Report Share Posted October 28, 2005 Current project would have allowed us to add any species that we could get photos off, however due to lack of response just the basic coral will be added as it appears everyone is really happy with it the status quo plus a reduction in about 300-400 fish species. I see no change, we can get ANYTHING we want now. The fact that we are expected to submit pictures of things that we arn't allowed so they can be considered for allowed status seems odd in the first place. Honestly I am surprised they don't just have 'you are allowed to bring in any fish thats not venimous or poisonous or on our naughty naughty list' and leave it at that. I mean where is the sense in allowing one type of chromas and not the next? Same deal for coral, what is the difference between one type of acropora or another? I travel a bit, the number of people i have seen stopped at NZ customers with bags of fruit, vegitables and other foods is astuonding. And thats just the ones I see getting stopped. We are talking about controlled importation here. Better of spending some money educating the pet owners about the risks "Hey don't flush nemo, lay him to rest in the garden or burn him in the fire kids" things of that nature. Pie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted October 28, 2005 Report Share Posted October 28, 2005 Great, thanks Ira. Why not do your corals even though they might be common. Nobody else may have done them yet and there's only 2 weeks left to go... I expect there is a lot of 'Oh it's common, someone else will do it' going on as I've had less than 100 submissions for all species both freshwater and marine. It's not a good look so far. It would appear nobody cares about their hobby and all the time, effort and money spent on it so far... Well, I've done the fish I want to keep, - if you don't care if the fish you want isn't allowed to be imported anymore then don't complain about it in the future if you do nothing about it now. Come on people, get your a's into gear. None of what I have is on Reef's list. Can't take a picture of something I don't have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted October 28, 2005 Report Share Posted October 28, 2005 Great, thanks Ira. Why not do your corals even though they might be common. It would be appreciated if anyone could send me an email so I can see if it a species that we are interested in or not. Once the final list is completed that will be It., and FYI. MAF will have much better procedures coming in force to stop any non allowed species. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Posted October 28, 2005 Report Share Posted October 28, 2005 None of what I have is on Reef's list. Can't take a picture of something I don't have. If it's not on the list then all the more reason to send it in!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Posted October 28, 2005 Report Share Posted October 28, 2005 I see no change, we can get ANYTHING we want now. The fact that we are expected to submit pictures of things that we arn't allowed so they can be considered for allowed status seems odd in the first place. Honestly I am surprised they don't just have 'you are allowed to bring in any fish thats not venimous or poisonous or on our naughty naughty list' and leave it at that. I mean where is the sense in allowing one type of chromas and not the next? Same deal for coral, what is the difference between one type of acropora or another? I travel a bit, the number of people i have seen stopped at NZ customers with bags of fruit, vegitables and other foods is astuonding. And thats just the ones I see getting stopped. We are talking about controlled importation here. Better of spending some money educating the pet owners about the risks "Hey don't flush nemo, lay him to rest in the garden or burn him in the fire kids" things of that nature. Pie Whether its good or not, it's the law thats been passed. It's extremely unlikely it will be changed so lets just do what we have to to protect our hobby... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted October 28, 2005 Report Share Posted October 28, 2005 None of what I have is on Reef's list So you have no mushrooms in your tank?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted October 28, 2005 Report Share Posted October 28, 2005 see no change, we can get ANYTHING we want now. And how do you quantify that, we are going to loss all the genus groups and be restricted to species only that we can find info on and all allowed items are going to be photographed for reference for any species coming in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Posted October 28, 2005 Report Share Posted October 28, 2005 And how do you quantify that,?? we are going to loss all the genus groups and be restricted to species only that we can find info on. From this statement it seems people are unaware just what is going to happen??? Maybe a quick re-read of the information on the fish study page would help... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted October 28, 2005 Report Share Posted October 28, 2005 And how do you quantify that,?? we are going to loss all the genus groups and be restricted to species only that we can find info on. How do I quantify it? I can think of several animals in my tanks that arn't on any list currently, my Lionfish, my Linkia Starfish, my Flame Hawkfish, my Bungaii cardinals, my blue legged hermit crabs, my live rock, the crabs living in some of my corals, the pistol shrimp hijackers etc etc. The contents of any list published by MAF vs. the reality of what can be purchased here in NZ has little to do with anything other than supplier availability. Pies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Posted October 28, 2005 Report Share Posted October 28, 2005 Aha, I see blatant disreguard for the law also applies... Ok, for law abiding people, this study is for you. Please just get on with it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted October 28, 2005 Report Share Posted October 28, 2005 From this statement it seems people are unaware just what is going to happen??? Maybe a quick re-read of the information on the fish study page would help... What is going to happen? MAF already has a list, it is, for the most part ignored. Adding more names to a list that is ignored seems a little silly to me, thats all. Pie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted October 28, 2005 Report Share Posted October 28, 2005 You dont know what you are talking about . sure some species are coming in that is not on the list, but this is all to change and they have really been checking and with the loss of all the genus groups it will be easy to id all the livestock Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Posted October 28, 2005 Report Share Posted October 28, 2005 What is going to happen? MAF already has a list, it is, for the most part ignored. Adding more names to a list that is ignored seems a little silly to me, thats all. Pie This is totally incorrect. The list is stuck to by most importers. It's not worth them losing their license. Anyone bringing in species not on the list is knowingly breaking the law. Looks like you are quoting what you'd really like to happen rather than what actually happens in the majority of cases. Sure you may be able to get something if you really want it by breaking the law but isn't it better not to have to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted October 28, 2005 Report Share Posted October 28, 2005 Ok, for law abiding people, this study is for you. Please just get on with it... ? Excuse me, what law did I break? I don't import livestock or sell it. Brooklands through my local pet store sold me my Hawkfish. They gave me a list and said 'anything you want on here, its all in stock'. I paid GST on my fish, that I purchased retail who in turn purchased it from reputed wholesaler. Pie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Posted October 28, 2005 Report Share Posted October 28, 2005 Your lionfish is on the banned list and just having it is illegal... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted October 28, 2005 Report Share Posted October 28, 2005 Maf collected a lionfish from someones house 12 months ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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