Help :(

[herefishiefishie]

If the out let hose is at the same level as the top of the tank the water keeps draining down the inlet hose until it fill up the outlet hose to the same level as the tank, yeah?

Yeah? No it dosen't.

With a canister filter all the media slows up the flow.

It is the motor/impellor & gravity that works a canister.

Where did you get your watt rates from.

Think about how much energy a cannister pump uses, like 7watts or something?

If you are going to tell someone they are wrong, give facts.

Pump, 1300lt/h 6.5W. 1200lt/h,10W

Canister Filter 1200lt/h, 22W

Now that is all I can see in one room.

I am sure Brad can scan through his shop & give plenty more examples.

Frenchy

[suphew]

Quote:

If the out let hose is at the same level as the top of the tank the water keeps draining down the inlet hose until it fill up the outlet hose to the same level as the tank, yeah?

Yeah? No it dosen't

Ummm yes it does, are you trying to tell me that if you have a piece of hose, put water in it, hold up each end, that the water wont be at the same level in each end of the hose. A cannister filter is just a hose with some stuff in the middle, the LAWS OF PHYSICS don't change because it happens to be a filter.

Quote:

Think about how much energy a cannister pump uses, like 7watts or something?

If you are going to tell someone they are wrong, give facts.

Pump, 1300lt/h 6.5W. 1200lt/h,10W

Canister Filter 1200lt/h, 22W

Now that is all I can see in one room.

I am sure Brad can scan through his shop & give plenty more examples.

My point is that there is a huge difference in wattage. I think you need to check you facts, I would put $ on the pump in your example being a power head. which are made to work at zero head, same as your cannister filter, therefore same wattage range. Go and find out how many watts needs to be to pump 1300lph AT 3 feet of head. (hint have a look at the graphs that come with most pumps).

[nickyboi]

Ok whilst this topic is still going off like a firecracker, may I ask somebody, firstly, (Aqua one 1200) Is the water coming into my canister through the holes in each media cartridge, sealed by o rings? Because i can see bits of crap floating around down the bottom, I assume the water then gets sucked back up through the media and back out.

Also why are bits off poop and whatnot creeping up the sides of the media instead of through it? Its as tight a fit as you can get it.

Also I keep getting air in the canister, I can remove it be slowly rocking it, and keeping the outlet out of the water, however it just gets more air pockets in it! Could this be because the intake is near airstones? I cannot see any bubbles going up however im guessing the air particles in the water invisible to the naked eye are building up inside the canister. Am i right, and apart from the odd noise, is air in the canister something I should be worried about?

[herefishiefishie]

Canisters force water through the filter media, rather than allowing it to flow past it as other filters do. This makes them ideal for heavy loads.

What filter media are you using. Eheim filters are set up so water cannot flow around the media. Unfortunitly some of the cheaper brands are not like this. I use ceramic noodles, bioballs in the bottom half(trays) The only filter pads I use are the coarse foams. Allows water to flow all the way through them.

Don't use finer types, filter wool & the like as these clog up very quickly. Water then can't go through the media, instead it runs off & up the sides, or where there are gaps in the media. A canister filter filled correctly shouldn't have to be cleaned for months.

To rid the air, I have done this by lifting the canister up off the ground slowly to the height of the tank. Sometimes work.

The other way is to empty canister.

Start the syphon to run water back into the canister, have the outlet hose below the canister in a bucket. Once water runs out the outlet pipe, plug in the canister, now it should run smoothly, after a few seconds, lift outlet pipe and connect pipe to spray bar. try not to spill water everywhere.

I would put $ on the pump in your example being a power head

1300lt/h is a sub pump, only pumps up 85cm. Was used a for a water feature.

If I syphon a canister to get water into the unit & connect the outlet to the spray bar, the water in the outlet pipe dosen't sit level with the water level of tank.

The water flow gets slowed down as it has to pass through the media, remember water goes down the canister first then up through the media.

Try it if you like then get back to me with your results.

Frenchy

[suphew]

the water in the outlet pipe dosen't sit level with the water level of tank.

Sorry I was unclear with this the water WILL sit at the same level in both pipes. i.e. in balance, i.e. zero head. Once you turn the filter on and the water starts flowing the water level in the inlet will be at about the level of the water in the tank (ok and inch or so higher because of pipe going over the top of the tank). The water outlet pipe will also be at the same height cause the pipe is also going over the top of the tank to the same body of water. So both pipes, same height=zero head.

The water flow gets slowed down as it has to pass through the media, remember water goes down the canister first then up through the media.

Try it if you like then get back to me with your results.

You are correct, but it just gets slowed down, I never said it would be instant, I would be surprised if it took more than a few second to balance/level, but it will happen.

[BK]

My two bits. Water level at two ends of section will always be the same. Flow is reduced by fraction. Thus pump only (give or take fraction) has to pump over lip of tank or difference between tank water level and highest point of hose. Don't trust rep's, I'm one and if you don't know just act like u do. Just think of filter as being length of hose.

[suphew]

Haha nice BK, used car sales, insurance sales, fish tank equipment sales..... :lol: :lol:

nickyboy, regarding the air build up in your filter, this shouldn't be happening (atleast not enough that you would ever notice it). First thing to check is that your inlet isn't sucking in air. It might only do it every once in a while when the currents are just right in the tank etc, easist fix is to put it lower into the tank. (if your using one of the surface skimmer attachment things its bound to be the problem).

If your intake is already well below the surface you need to check all the seals and joints, this isn't an easy task because the leak might be big enough to let air in when the filter is running, but too small to let much water out when its not.

Good luck

[herefishiefishie]

Oh yeah I should of added what suphew said.

First check to see all hoses are connected properly, seals....... :roll:

Has there always been air in there, if so the canister wasn't primed correctly at the start.... does it have a primer, or a detachment to fill canister with water.....if they don't work

then try,

I have done this by lifting the canister up off the ground slowly to the height of the tank. Sometimes work.

The other way is to empty canister.

Start the syphon to run water back into the canister, have the outlet hose below the canister in a bucket. Once water runs out the outlet pipe, plug in the canister, now it should run smoothly, after a few seconds, lift outlet pipe and connect pipe to spray bar. try not to spill water everywhere.

Frenchy

[Freakyfish]

I'm sorry brad you are still wrong. To simplify your experiment to something every one could try. Take a length of hose, and a mouthful of water. put one end of the hose in your mouth and hold the other end straight up and try to blow the water in your mouth up it, hard work yeah? now hold the hose straight out, easy work yeah? Now hold the hose so it droops down but the out let end of the hose is still at the same level as your mouth, surprise, still just as easy.

Just one problem here is that a canister filter is filled media which acts like a baffle

So if you would like to fill that hose with a sponge or filter media then try and blow through it you will notice it is harder

also misnoma sorry i didnt read your post properly and yeah i see now you stated it correctly to fill the hose with water

Also i ran another test here where i had a brand new canister filter which i set up to go straight up around 2.5 mtr now on the box it says the maximum height is 1.5 mtr

This is a CF500 aqua one canister using 10.5 watts

Now when it is running at about 1 mtr it morks fine when raised to 2.5 mtrs this canister completely stops as in no flow at all now this is 2.5 mtr from the canister and only about 1 mtr above the tank

also another reply from Eheim states that the maximum height is measured from the impellor of the canister

Brad

[nickyboi]

yeah its always been sweet, well for the last week it has, but since I moved it off the floor, and placed some airstones around the intake its been filling up with little bubbles at the bottom of the canister. Like I was saying I cant see any bubbles from the airstones getting sucked up but was wondering if it was the smaller bubbles unviewable to the naked eye that were accumulating in the bottom then getting expelled. All the seals and tubing are tighter than a .... .... . So yeah I can only think its all the air in the water.

Its an Aqua One CF1200. Also in regard to that filter wool I think I should get rid of it as im sure its hampering the output.

Will take apart later and take some photos of it and the setup of the media and invite the gurus criticism.

N

[Freakyfish]

Don't trust rep's, I'm one and if you don't know just act like u do.

a good rep will tell you if he doesnt know well they do here

I have a few reps who if i want to know the truth ill ask

I also have a few where i know their answer is trying to sell me more of their products

Quite simply if i think a rep is full of it i will simply stop listening to them and that makes it harder for that rep to sell me their goods cos their information is untrustworthy

I work on the principle of trust once youve acted like you know when you dont the trust is gone

Brad

[nickyboi]

Some of the reps are complete muppets and goodness only knows how they got the job!!!

[herefishiefishie]

Even those that are in retail, are sales reps to a point.

The trick is repeat business. If someone finds out you bull....ed them, they won't be back.

I told one sales rep last week not to come back, after he tried to act like he knew what he was talking about. You see when you do that, you may come accross someone who knows the subject being talked about and has little time for fools. Don't treat people like idiots.

Frenchy

[BK]

Hay I know how it works as I've been at the same place for 10 years now, But the point is people do get things wrong even if they think they are rigth. Fishy your rigth repeat orders are the best then all you have to do is talk about rugby.

[suphew]

Now when it is running at about 1 mtr it morks fine when raised to 2.5 mtrs this canister completely stops as in no flow at all now this is 2.5 mtr from the canister and only about 1 mtr above the tank

Sorry I'm confused, when you say you raised it from 1m to 2.5, do you mean you lowered the cannister from 1m below tank to 2.5m below the tank? You also talk about the cannister only about 1m above the tank????

If your running you cannister above the level of the tank all bets are off! The whole balancing, zero head think works if you are going from an open container DOWN through a sealed one, going from an sealed down to an open wont work.

[herefishiefishie]

I bring up rugby here when I run into a kiwi, or south african. Common ground gets alot sales. :lol:

Frenchy

[Freakyfish]

yeah sorry for that i confused justin with that one as well

What i meant was that i raised the outlet pipe

the canister itself didnt move

the inlet pipe stayed in the same spot in the tank

yeah shops / sales rep need repeat business to survive long term

Brad

[Pegasus]

Removed several posts regarding drunken fights etc

Nothing to do with the topic.

Bill.

[herefishiefishie]

Sweet, my apologies

Frenchy