External thermal heaters

[Kriber]

Hi everyone,

I was wondering if anyone has any experience using external thermal heaters (ETHs) like the ones made by Hydor for example that run off the outlets of external canister filters? Are they very relaible? They aren't common around CHCH stores, and I'm wondering if reliabilty is the issue as for what they are they don't seem ridicuously priced compared to more standard heaters.

[Goldie]

Welcome Kriber to the fishy forum. Sorry I have no experience with such heaters.

Yay another Cantaburian What sort of fish do you have. Would you put a little post in theWelcome part about the sort of set up you have and the sorts of fish??? I would love to know. I run tropicals 2 tanks plus a small hospital one.

Welcome again.

[Ira]

I'd make an educated guess that they're probably pretty similar in reliability to the average in tank heater. I think the biggest reason that they're not seen often is that they're more expensive, I think the ones I saw were about 50% more expensive, and that they can really only be used if you have a cannister filter. Which would limit the people that might buy it because it seems most people have little tanks with undergravel filters or in tank filters.

[dennis]

i kown a shop that been useing then and they said that they relly good

they were $110 there

[john1]

Hi

There is one big problem. Maybe not applicable to everyone but still possible. I have 3 filters in mine. U/G, powerhead/cartridge and one Fluval 204 cannister. Now if I would have connected that heater you proposed, which in itself seems a good idea, my fish could haven frozen to death. Maybe a bit exaggerated. But the flugal got blocked. So therefore, no warmed water would have reached my tank. The 27.5 degrees would only be inside that cannister and not in my tank. Think about it.

John

[Ira]

Honestly, that sounds more like bad tank maintenance than a fault of the heater.

Just a thought, I'd think it would be best putting it on the outlet side of the filter instead of the inlet. I doubt it heats the water up much(Heat a lot of water a little) so having hot water going in the cannister wouldn't be a worry, but I think it'd be best to have hopefully cleaner water going through the heater to minimize gunk buildup. Probably not a big deal though.

[john1]

Hi Ira

In a way you are right. But how many do make filter changes at REGULAR intervalls? Do YOU changes it at a given time or when you think or know it is getting ready? It could cost a fortune to change the filter media when it is not necessary. Oh yes, it is good for the fish. But not your pocket. Manufaturers want you to change the filter as often as possible. Their profit. A dirty filter does not mean bad filtration. Look at u/g filters. Probably never cleaned in years. I change my cannister filter media when the flow gets slower/lower. But then it can happen after a couple of days it is completely blocked. Does not necessarily indicate bad managment. And again, you are not wrong.

John

[Ira]

I never change the media. It's not necessary to change it, just give it all a good rinse to get the crap off, and it's basically good as new. I've never had any of my filters so clogged that they wouldn't flow at all even after not cleaning one that needs cleaning about every other week after not cleaning it for a few months. All the crap did clog the sink though. Yuck.

[john1]

Hi Ira

I have a fluval 204. The water gets in first through a coarse sponge, then then filterwool, then charcoal and last the ceramic noodles. Now let's asume it is time for cleaning. I can clean the coarse sponge and.....charcoal? NO. It has to be renewed (recharged), filterwool... NO. I cannot imagine anyone cleaning filterwool. But there is very little cleaning as such. Mostly buying...charcoal, filterwool etc. Take for instance an external hangon the wall filter like the TETRA. Nothing whatsoever to clean. Only buy. The cartridge/charcoal combination insert. There is nothing wrong with regular maintenance as such. But for whatever reason, people CAN forget. Nobody is perfect. Eheim, I think was the first ones to bring out a cannister with integral heating. But I am not sure how much an element is and/or how easy it is to be installed. I personally stick to a good quality "normal heater". Who is right?, Who is wrong?, Who cares?. Everybody has his/hers pet....whatever. I think it all comes down to choice.

John

[Ira]

If you're worried about the cost, Charcoal really is unnecessary. Just do reasonable size water changes, even then you don't really need to do it. And you can rinse filter wool, it works just fine. But even then it's something like $5 for a lifetime supply(Exaggerating). I don't even use filter wool for the most part because I just can't be bothered buying any. May grab some next time I see some though. The sponges do a good enough job, in my opinion and they're definitely reusable. With just the sponges and media there is definitely nothing that needs replacing. I've never used any kind of filter that uses cartridges. Are you sure they can't be rinsed?

[Caryl]

I used to use a Fluval 303 and now have a 404. I never use charcoal. I bought a huge pile of filter wool years ago. It was sold in a material shop as inner filling for duvets (or dooners I believe for you Aussies) and did cost around $5. This was before the days when it became compulsory to make the stuff fire retardant so I am not sure I would do the same these days! I rinse the filter wool but find I have to replace it every 2nd clean (which for me is about once a year) :lol:

[Shilo]

I've never used any kind of filter that uses cartridges. Are you sure they can't be rinsed?

I rinse mine all the time (Whisper hang on the wall). One bag lasts about 5 months with monthly washes. I also buy charcoal separately since it is much cheaper then the tiny amount of charcoal / zeolite mix Tetra sell for use in their filters.

Honestly, that sounds more like bad tank maintenance than a fault of the heater.

Either bad maintenance or bad luck, the heater is still at fault, or rather the designers are. Most modern equipment is designed to minimalise human error. The computer in front of you is a good example - if you accidentally delete a file it can be retrieved by simply digging through the rubbish bin. Seat belts in cars are another example.

The heater not working because of a filter breakdown is a design / concept fault. But the choice is up the individual who may consider the advantages out weigh the risk. Of course I have no where to attach an external heater too, but it would be good to get it out of the tank.

[john1]

Shilo

The Whisper hang on the wall has a filter bag/cartridge, which is very awkward to clean. Too rough a material. It also has, as another company pointed out, a teabag consistency. Which is true. When you look down it looks like an enormous teebag. In which the charcoal supposed to be evenly distributed. Which it is NOT. By inflating the bag, all the charcoal drops down toward the bottom. Negating the effect of it.

Caryl

I never rinse my filterwool. I get the el-cheapo version. Could not be bothered by washing it. Qucker to replace.

Ira

In normal circumstances you are right. But it also depends on how tight you pack the filterwool. The tighter, the quicker it will block. Sometimes completely. And also how much you feed, how many fish, they do poop. Some more than others.

That post saved me writing 3 different ones. Smart, aren't I

John

[Caryl]

Well done John, very clever of you

I sometimes don't bother rinsing the filter wool either, just chuck it. My Scottish heritage comes out I think exhorting me to try rinsing first! :lol: