Derek Posted October 15, 2002 Report Share Posted October 15, 2002 I have been asked to give two 2hour talks on tropical fish to students studying for a NZQA course for vet nurses(assistants).Holders of this qualification may find employment in veterenary surgeries, pet shops or the aquaculture industry. Are there any topics that you feel they should definately know about? When dealing with such people in the past, is there anything that you felt they should know but didn't? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caryl Posted October 15, 2002 Report Share Posted October 15, 2002 Basic fish disease recognition and water quality requirements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted October 15, 2002 Report Share Posted October 15, 2002 If you could get some good pictures of fish with the most common diseases, that'd be good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caryl Posted October 15, 2002 Report Share Posted October 15, 2002 Anyone got any diseased fish to give Derek? Real specimens would be even better than pics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Posted October 15, 2002 Report Share Posted October 15, 2002 Off the top of my head: Common diseases and effective treatments. General water quality issues remembering to make them familiar with regular tank/filter maintenance tasks/regimes. Probably an introduction to the nitrogen cycle (since fish may be sick due to environmental factors rather than some pathogen). Not knowing what knowledge the students have perhaps some basic water chemistry ie pH and hardness. The more humane ways to euthanaise fish. Other things that may be outside what you want to cover: Algae control. Basic external fish anatomy (ie this is a caudal fin, this is the caudal peduncle etc). Responsible disposal of unwanted fish and plants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Posted October 15, 2002 Report Share Posted October 15, 2002 they're most likely gonna b involved in the retail aspect... so definitely conc. on basic management n preventative stuff rather than diseases i reckon....it's quite a bit of info if u havn't had fishes before. like what Rob has suggested, general water quality issues.....talk about N cycle (filtration, , ammonia etc, water changes, new tank syndrome)......temperature, n perhaps pH, hardness if they're still awake. Might b useful to bring along some gadgets....airpimps, heater, dif types of filters. test kits etc Diet? definitely salt uses too. perhaps bring in osmoregulation etc. mention the dangers of various drugs availabe at LFS... n perhaps sum it all up with a step-by-step guide about things to do when setting up a basic aquarium( i reckon this is what most local vet nurses will b doing--giving advise-- if they ever get to deal with fish in the first place) euthanasia, algae control, common diseases etc r definitely useful....i would suggest a handout for future reference to cover these bits....don't forget, most of them havn't got any idea how an aquarium works....u should drill the basics first Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Posted October 15, 2002 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2002 Thanks for all your ideas, they are pretty much in line with what I was planning. The subjects I was planning to go over include: Identification of different classes of fish How to infer conditions suitable for a particular species from its appearance Catching, handling and transportation of fish Food requirements for different species Signs of both normal and abnormal health Quarantine procedures. Disease identification and cures for some of the more common diseases. Euthanasia Nitrification cycle. General tank maintenance. Ideal aquaria for different species (Size, water quality, aeration, filtration, lighting and environmental enrichment (rocks, plants, gravel, driftwood, caves, etc)) What information should be obtained from a client to help in a diagnosis. Especially when they come in with a question like “My fish are dying – what is wrong?†If anyone has anything else they think I should add, let me know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajbroome Posted October 15, 2002 Report Share Posted October 15, 2002 Derek said... > Are there any topics that you feel they should definately know about? I think they should know how to make use of the resources available to them. Knowing how to contact their local fish club and/or having a 'tame hobbyist' is a good start. Often it'll be easier to refer a 'patient' onto someone local who has been dealing with similar things under local conditions. Also the names of good fish books and whether the local library (or club) has them... Bear in mind there may also be a 'herp' aspect to this. In my experience people are more inclined to go to a vet with a sick turtle. With a dodgy tetra, they're more likely to go back to the shop... I reckon most problems with sick fish can be traced to environmental issues (including stress) so a really good understanding of what biological factors affect a fish would be very important. Also, a little knowledge *can* be a dangerous thing... Andrew. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Posted October 15, 2002 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2002 Thanks Andrew They have other people talking to them on "herps" and goldfish. Hopefully the students will get a bit of overlap on some of the topics. Many Vets are now opening "pet shops" in association with their surgeries. So their assistants may well be called upon to handle not only problems traditionally associated with Vets but also the handling and care of fish as well as queries from customers that are usually associated with pet shops. Your point about extra sources of information is a good one and I will definitely follow that up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deleatidium Posted October 16, 2002 Report Share Posted October 16, 2002 How about giving them the addresses of some good basic fishy websites with good overviews of the hobby? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajbroome Posted October 16, 2002 Report Share Posted October 16, 2002 Deleatidium said... > How about giving them the addresses of some good basic > fishy websites with good overviews of the hobby? URLs come and go, a good search engine is a very useful and powerful tool though... Derek, don't forget to point them at The FNZAS Fishroom. Andrew. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pegasus Posted October 17, 2002 Report Share Posted October 17, 2002 Hi there, You're doing a goods thing there Derek, but aren't we going just a bit overboard with this thing, after all, who in their right mind would catch a sick fish, bag it up, then put it in a styrene container, then travel to a vet and perhaps sit waiting in a surgery for who knows how long, and then have a confused person examine something they know little about, and in the end be faced with a vet bill for possibly twenty bucks or so ? A major proportion of fish diseases effect only fish, and no other creature. People have dedicated their lives to this field, and many are still learning, and many still get fish losses. We don't go to the dentist to have our eyes tested, nor do we take our fish to the vet for obvious reasons There's a big difference in taking a turtle or a cat to a vet than taking a sick fish. Just think about it... the client is there sat clutching a bag (possibly in tears) with a fish on it's last legs, with no signs of obvious injury, but obviously dying. What could a vet do?? Very little I would think, and the best advice given above would be to refer the problem to someone who knows, and unless the vet has some knowledge of the hobby, with many years of study on fish ailments, then I can't really see any vets in NZ setting up for fish diseases as part of their practice. Showing your audience the benefits of the net and the various means of obtaining information on these ailments, along with a list of links they can quickly access for help would be of great benefit to them. Regards, Bill (Pegasus) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Posted October 17, 2002 Report Share Posted October 17, 2002 I definitely agree with u Bill with regards to fish clients turning up at vet clinics.....It's just not gonna happen at your average small animal clinic in NZ. however, as Derek has said, QUOTE: Many Vets are now opening "pet shops" in association with their surgeries. So their assistants may well be called upon to handle not only problems traditionally associated with Vets but also the handling and care of fish as well as queries from customers that are usually associated with pet shops. I know quite a few vet clinics selling fishes( mostly goldfish n sometimes tropical)as part of their retail outlet, together with petfood, chains, leads etc.... Now who's gonna take care of these tanks in the clinic? vet nurses have to know a thing or 2 about basic fish care. well, in my opinion, the 'ideal' vet nurse would b like the 'ideal' lfs person, giving sound n practical advice to customers on preventative n management stuff. i wouldn't expect our nurses to know n recognise n treat fish diseases etc. let alone the vet....These will come with experience n self-learning.... Don't forget Derek that u want to hold on to your audience. It's quite a big list of stuff to cover in only 2 hrs......i reckon u should focus strongly on the basics of water, nutrition and equipment. These would b most beneficial to vet nurses Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Posted November 6, 2002 Report Share Posted November 6, 2002 If I remember correctly, there was an excellent vet that dealt with fish in Palmerston North. Correct me if I'm wrong tho, I think his name was David Dowde, and he was used by some of the hobbyist there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajbroome Posted November 6, 2002 Report Share Posted November 6, 2002 Alan said... > If I remember correctly, there was an excellent vet that > dealt with fish in Palmerston North. Correct me if I'm wrong > tho, I think his name was David Dowde, and he was used by > some of the hobbyist there. There *was* a vet here named David Dowd but he has since moved to Australia, probably in the early 90s. He was one of the original killifish people in NZ and an excellent fish keeper (when he had the time). Can't comment on his dealings with sick fish though. Oddly enough, Eric from Wet Pets now lives in his old house although it's gone through a few hands since then David sold it. Andrew. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john1 Posted December 2, 2002 Report Share Posted December 2, 2002 To whom it may concern. I believe that Pegasus' reply was the best. The average vet is probably more knowledgable than the average GP. Animals can't talk. The problem is that the average aquarist sometimes does not know himself if a fish is sick. Some fish have a disease which can only been recognised by disecting. One sick fish with no obvious signs of sickness are pretty impossible, even for a vet, to diagnose. So a mere, pardon the expression, vet-nurse has most likely less idea than a qualified vet. Unfortunately, most aquarist leave the fish in their tank until it dies, or kill it beforehand. So subsequently there is little practise a vet can get. Not enough specimen. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goldie Posted December 2, 2002 Report Share Posted December 2, 2002 How did the talk go Derek??? What did you end up talking about??? :roll: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Posted December 6, 2002 Author Report Share Posted December 6, 2002 Hi Goldie, The talk seemed to go OK. Usuall story with a room full of students, some were interested, some were not. The Vet that takes the course must have thought it went OK as she has asked if I will do it again next year. I ended up running out of time, so I didn't cover all the topics that I planned. The time taken to answer questions was longer than I thought it would be. Anyway the topics I did get to cover were: Setting up an aquarium covering things like location, type of gravel, rocks, driftwood, water chemistry, equipment such as lighting, filters, heaters, aeration, etc A big emphasis on cycling the aquarium, how the nitrification cycle works along with signs of ammonia, nitrite poisoning, etc. How to infer conditions suitable for a particular species from its appearance. Catching, handling and transportation of fish Feeding Enviromental factors causing stress Signs of stress Signs of both normal and abnormal health Basic medications and treatments. As you can see I missed alot of possible topics. About three weeks prior to the talk they had a two hour visit to my fishroom, so I was able to cover some other points like routine tank maintanance, different conditions for different species, live foods, etc during that visit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Posted December 6, 2002 Report Share Posted December 6, 2002 Hi Derek, Was the Vet Karen? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goldie Posted December 6, 2002 Report Share Posted December 6, 2002 Well done Derek sounds totally absorbing. Wish all shops would send their staff on a seminar held by ppl like yrslf. HEY maybe you could run seminars and charge zillions for attendance :lol: Seriously though, it is great that you are willing to give you time and knowlege. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Posted December 8, 2002 Author Report Share Posted December 8, 2002 Was the Vet Karen? Yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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