Cant figure out a Betta's sex!

[nieve5552]

I got this fighter just over a week ago. He was 5 months old when I got him and on the auction site the seller had described him as a male green dragon fighter.

His fins hasnt grown even the slightest in the last week and when I see photos of other bettas the males seem to have fins that are longer than this one even though they are younger by one or 2 months. He flares at his own reflection very readily and does have a visible beard which completely disappears when he is not flaring.

My understanding is that bettas are fully grown at around 7 months and since he only has less than 2 months left till then, he doesnt seem like he will become a full halfmoon by that point (the seller also said that one of the parent fish was a longtailed halfmoon)

He also seem to have very small ventral fins in comparison to other bettas..

Please help!

[BikBok]

is that an egg spot showing ? if it is then it's a girl!

[Adrienne]

I can't confirm the sex by the photos you have taken but if you look between the ventrals and there is a white dot then the fish is a female. It looks as if, particularly in the first photo, there is a white dot. This is known as the ovipositor or egg spot.

Your fish is not a half moon. A half moon has a tail that is shaped like D (a D). I suspect that if the seller said a parent was a longtailed half moon then they are not very experienced. A half moon has a long tail. A long tail is a different tail type than a half moon which may sound confusing. Did they say what the other parent was? I would think by looking at the fish it is possibly a half moon,/long tail (previously known as veiltail) cross or a delta tail/long tail cross or even a halfmoon plakat/longtail cross.

Ventrals in fighters can vary considerably in length.

It does have very nice colouring

[nieve5552]

is that an egg spot showing ? if it is then it's a girl!

I can't confirm the sex by the photos you have taken but if you look between the ventrals and there is a white dot then the fish is a female. It looks as if, particularly in the first photo, there is a white dot. This is known as the ovipositor or egg spot.

Your fish is not a half moon. A half moon has a tail that is shaped like D (a D). I suspect that if the seller said a parent was a longtailed half moon then they are not very experienced. A half moon has a long tail. A long tail is a different tail type than a half moon which may sound confusing. Did they say what the other parent was? I would think by looking at the fish it is possibly a half moon,/long tail (previously known as veiltail) cross or a delta tail/long tail cross or even a halfmoon plakat/longtail cross.

Ventrals in fighters can vary considerably in length.

It does have very nice colouring

He/she does have an egg spot, but after some research I read that even some males can have egg spots (which is not so rare that International Betta Congress has banned male bettas with eggs spots from entering contests.. apparently)

Yes when he flared the tail does seem to get close to a halfmoon but I thought that it would grow to the right angle with age..

The seller said the father was a longtail halfmoon and the mother a halfmoon, which as you said, doesnt really make much sense. Oh I just had a thought, maybe the longtail halfmoon means normal halfmoon and the halfmoon mother a halfmoon plakat? Even though the parents are halfmoons, theoretically they could create an offspring with delta tails if their halfmoon genes are not fixed right?

I feel like I need some other more distinguishing traits to sex this one, Im so confused! :nilly:

:happy2: His colour does look nice but I think he is more a turquoise than green, as he looks blue most of the time and green from certain angles.. Still, the metallic sheen looks very pretty especially in the sunlight

[chaos0wnage]

I see an egg spot in Pic #1 and Pic #3, one of the pictures also has a stress stripe showing which is not normal for a male unless water temperature is too low or is a genetically induced trait.

As for the IBC banning males in shows with egg spots one would wonder how they would prove it is a male if an ovipositor is present, as many biologists know it is not new for female fish to develop excessive finnage.

If you follow most sexing info on the internet... you have people who say females are not generally brightly coloured... I have lots of brightly coloured females in my tank, hell I even have double colours. I have even used them for breeding.

All bettas develop sexual organs at a very young age, there are also males who do not blow bubble nests due to passing through a female "phase" at some point then you have males that do blow bubble nests but cannot "wrap" around females in one study they have found that infertile males pass through a female stage which retards sexual development.

If you still think its a male with an egg spot you can check by putting in a female with"Him" separating her in a see through container which has water that can pass through it and then making sure the water is still for a couple of days and see if he blows a bubble nest.

or

You may do the opposite and put in a male, separate them, have them be able to see each other then reduce surface water flow for a couple of days to observe which one builds a bubble nest.

Make sure cold air passes on top of the water.

[nieve5552]

I see an egg spot in Pic #1 and Pic #3, one of the pictures also has a stress stripe showing which is not normal for a male unless water temperature is too low or is a genetically induced trait.

As for the IBC banning males in shows with egg spots one would wonder how they would prove it is a male if an ovipositor is present, as many biologists know it is not new for female fish to develop excessive finnage.

If you follow most sexing info on the internet... you have people who say females are not generally brightly coloured... I have lots of brightly coloured females in my tank, hell I even have double colours. I have even used them for breeding.

All bettas develop sexual organs at a very young age, there are also males who do not blow bubble nests due to passing through a female "phase" at some point then you have males that do blow bubble nests but cannot "wrap" around females in one study they have found that infertile males pass through a female stage which retards sexual development.

If you still think its a male with an egg spot you can check by putting in a female with"Him" separating her in a see through container which has water that can pass through it and then making sure the water is still for a couple of days and see if he blows a bubble nest.

or

You may do the opposite and put in a male, separate them, have them be able to see each other then reduce surface water flow for a couple of days to observe which one builds a bubble nest.

Make sure cold air passes on top of the water.

The temperature is kept at a steady 27 deg, he seemed pretty stressed with moving and the change in environment (colour washed out drastically with prominent stress line) and recovered in a couple of days but he still glass surfs and sometimes has a stress line that looks a bit faded.

Yes I do wonder how they would do that, maybe they use a list of other traits to sort them, the judges must be judges for a reason :lol: and yes a lot of females do seem as colourful as males after all the selective breeding no dispute there.

Ive even read of females blowing bubble nests themselves, laying eggs (when they are quite gravid) and picking the unfertilised eggs up and putting them in the bubble nests all by themselves...

The use of other bettas is not really possible since I dont have any other bettas :-?

[chaos0wnage]

I got this fighter just over a week ago. He was 5 months old when I got him and on the auction site the seller had described him as a male green dragon fighter...

His fins hasnt grown even the slightest in the last week and when I see photos of other bettas the males seem to have fins that are longer than this one even though they are younger by one or 2 months. Please help!

Green/blues are a nice shade there were a few people looking for pure green or blue a couple weeks back.

as for fin growth it just depends what is fed and how often as well as water current and genetics.

generally protein rich food aids in growth and low flow sees them grow big tails fast like when breeders use jars.

Even though I sell online most of the time, I choose not to be stating a tail type if I'm unsure.

If its a small tail I just state plakat, only if overlap of dorsal and anal is obvious I'd say hmpk (I judge this between three and four months of age), when I had a set of fish without ventrals I listed it as such because I knew there could be a flaw in genetics though trilobite educated me that it was actually due to bacterial attack on ventral fins during development anyway back to your story....

see there I think its a male with an egg spot due to large anal fin like what some males have

here I think its a female due to body shape how its getting narrow toward the tail and round/wide under head

there the egg spot just sticks out to me so would just have to experiment to find out what's going on.

long tail types are to my knowledge:

1- Crowntail

2- Delta variants(Superdelta, Rosetail etc)

3- Double Tail

4- Halfmoon Variants (Rosetail, OHM etc)

5- Veiltail - THE REAL LONG TAIL

6- SPADETAIL ( I'm looking for these)

and plakats can have any of those variations on their tail as a scaled down form.

in an ideal world there would be a large tail, multi tail and long tail category along with plakats

I do have problems with these auction sites and clubs as they think they know the genetics through bucket breeding (stole the "Bucket" from bucket chemistry lol) and no real study or experimentation, at times people are abusive with no knowledge of what they are talking about.

To find a solution to this problem...

Are you in Auckland?

I could lend you a Plakat male if you want to try find out

[nieve5552]

Green/blues are a nice shade there were a few people looking for pure green or blue a couple weeks back.

as for fin growth it just depends what is fed and how often as well as water current and genetics.

generally protein rich food aids in growth and low flow sees them grow big tails fast like when breeders use jars.

Even though I sell online most of the time, I choose not to be stating a tail type if I'm unsure.

If its a small tail I just state plakat, only if overlap of dorsal and anal is obvious I'd say hmpk (I judge this between three and four months of age), when I had a set of fish without ventrals I listed it as such because I knew there could be a flaw in genetics though trilobite educated me that it was actually due to bacterial attack on ventral fins during development anyway back to your story....

see there I think its a male with an egg spot due to large anal fin like what some males have

here I think its a female due to body shape how its getting narrow toward the tail and round/wide under head

there the egg spot just sticks out to me so would just have to experiment to find out what's going on.

long tail types are to my knowledge:

1- Crowntail

2- Delta variants(Superdelta, Rosetail etc)

3- Double Tail

4- Halfmoon Variants (Rosetail, OHM etc)

5- Veiltail - THE REAL LONG TAIL

6- SPADETAIL ( I'm looking for these)

and plakats can have any of those variations on their tail as a scaled down form.

in an ideal world there would be a large tail, multi tail and long tail category along with plakats

I do have problems with these auction sites and clubs as they think they know the genetics through bucket breeding (stole the "Bucket" from bucket chemistry lol) and no real study or experimentation, at times people are abusive with no knowledge of what they are talking about.

To find a solution to this problem...

Are you in Auckland?

I could lend you a Plakat male if you want to try find out

Yip the anal fin being longer than the tail seem to present itself as a male in my opinion, I have asked the seller for photos of the parents to see if they are the standard halfmoons.

Thank you for your generous offer but unfortunately Im in Christchurch..

The world of bettas is a complicated one :dno:

[Trilobite]

Im leaning towards delta female. Its fat in a triangle behind the stomach where the ovaries would be. Heres a pic to show what I mean

As for tail type, definitely not pk or hmpk, fins are way to long even for a male, it has 4 ray branching and rectangular anal so definitely not a vt, obliviously not ct or dt, cant reach 180 and has a round tail so cant be hm. Therefore it can only be a delta/superdelta. Im leaning more to it being the result of a hm x with something else because of that caudal roundness but only way to know for sure is to ask the breeder

Colour isnt dragon either, just normal turquoise with red loss. Dragon thickens the scales and gives a full mask.

But it has a massive tail making me think male... only way to really know for sure is to separate it from view of all other fish for a while then see if it matures into a male or stays as a lady

[Adrienne]

Agree with Monique on the tail - thats the only thing leading me to think male as well. Where are you located?

[chaos0wnage]

Im leaning towards delta female. Its fat in a triangle behind the stomach where the ovaries would be. Heres a pic to show what I mean

As for tail type, definitely not pk or hmpk, fins are way to long even for a male, it has 4 ray branching and rectangular anal so definitely not a vt, obliviously not ct or dt, cant reach 180 and has a round tail so cant be hm. Therefore it can only be a delta/superdelta. Im leaning more to it being the result of a hm x with something else because of that caudal roundness but only way to know for sure is to ask the breeder

Colour isnt dragon either, just normal turquoise with red loss. Dragon thickens the scales and gives a full mask.

But it has a massive tail making me think male... only way to really know for sure is to separate it from view of all other fish for a while then see if it matures into a male or stays as a lady

4 to 1 stating current state could be female?

The sex of this fish will also determine if it was worth your money unless he/she/heshe was solely bought as a fun pet.

I wish less people would refer to hm or other larger tail types as "longtails" its like the whole elephant ear thing all over again.

[nieve5552]

Im leaning towards delta female. Its fat in a triangle behind the stomach where the ovaries would be. Heres a pic to show what I mean

As for tail type, definitely not pk or hmpk, fins are way to long even for a male, it has 4 ray branching and rectangular anal so definitely not a vt, obliviously not ct or dt, cant reach 180 and has a round tail so cant be hm. Therefore it can only be a delta/superdelta. Im leaning more to it being the result of a hm x with something else because of that caudal roundness but only way to know for sure is to ask the breeder

Colour isnt dragon either, just normal turquoise with red loss. Dragon thickens the scales and gives a full mask.

But it has a massive tail making me think male... only way to really know for sure is to separate it from view of all other fish for a while then see if it matures into a male or stays as a lady

Thank you for your reply. The breeder cant seem to be able to provide photos of the parent fish, looking at the sibling offspring she says there are short finned, longer finned and some dumbos as well so she says she doesnt think that either mum or dad were entirely halfmoons. I assume she means genetically homozygous halfmoons or genetically fixed halfmoons.

She also says that this fish is the only one with dragon scales.. Personally I dont seem to be able to distinguish dragon scales unless the fish has that thick painted scale look..

There are no other betta fish around him at the moment

[nieve5552]

Agree with Monique on the tail - thats the only thing leading me to think male as well. Where are you located?

Im in Christchurch :bggrn:

[nieve5552]

4 to 1 stating current state could be female?

The sex of this fish will also determine if it was worth your money unless he/she/heshe was solely bought as a fun pet.

I wish less people would refer to hm or other larger tail types as "longtails" its like the whole elephant ear thing all over again.

I was looking for a halfmoon so either way, I dont think he would be worth my money or me driving all the way out to Lincoln :-?

He/she is pretty cute though haha

I dont have plans to breed at the moment but I was thinking that I might in the future..

Yeah I guess that longtail thing doesnt make sense to me either, standard halfmoons, deltas, crowntails etc have large tails anyway so it seems fruitless to refer to them as longtail halfmoons etc.

What happened with the elephant ear term?

[Trilobite]

Thank you for your reply. The breeder cant seem to be able to provide photos of the parent fish, looking at the sibling offspring she says there are short finned, longer finned and some dumbos as well so she says she doesnt think that either mum or dad were entirely halfmoons. I assume she means genetically homozygous halfmoons or genetically fixed halfmoons.

She also says that this fish is the only one with dragon scales.. Personally I dont seem to be able to distinguish dragon scales unless the fish has that thick painted scale look..

There are no other betta fish around him at the moment

Halfmoon isnt controlled by one gene, but instead its made by lots of diferent environmental factors (training, water quality etc) and genes (ray splitting, sharp edges, big spread, long fins etc). Because of this most hm x hm will throw sd and delta as well

For some reason many people seem to think that if a fish has some scales on its face then its a dragon...lol I used to too when I first had bettas :facepalm:

But yeah dragon has the thick painted look as you say, like this guy

Your one is more like this, with a tiny bit of masking. But the scales arent thick and the mask isnt full to let him be called a dragon.

I think maybe what the seller is meaning by longfin is that the hm is long fin instead of hm shortfin (hmpk). My biggest hate was how anything that had black orchid blood in it automatically became a black orchid as well, even if the fish wasnt even black...but it kept the ridiculously high prices of a "pure" one lol

what ever your fish decides to become at least its a cute one :-D

[nieve5552]

Halfmoon isnt controlled by one gene, but instead its made by lots of diferent environmental factors (training, water quality etc) and genes (ray splitting, sharp edges, big spread, long fins etc). Because of this most hm x hm will throw sd and delta as well

For some reason many people seem to think that if a fish has some scales on its face then its a dragon...lol I used to too when I first had bettas :facepalm:

But yeah dragon has the thick painted look as you say, like this guy

Your one is more like this, with a tiny bit of masking. But the scales arent thick and the mask isnt full to let him be called a dragon.

I think maybe what the seller is meaning by longfin is that the hm is long fin instead of hm shortfin (hmpk). My biggest hate was how anything that had black orchid blood in it automatically became a black orchid as well, even if the fish wasnt even black...but it kept the ridiculously high prices of a "pure" one lol

what ever your fish decides to become at least its a cute one :-D

Awesome I think I finally properly understand the term for dragons now, thanks! :happy2:

Yeah I asked the seller if she meant the standard halfmoon by saying longfinned and if the other halfmoon parent was a plakat if it wasnt a 'longfin' like the other.

The seller offered me a refund and fish pick up but I think Ill keep him/her, its quite active and the colour is quite interesting.. Also I dont think it would be fair on the fish, he was showing some seriously washed out colour when he was bagged I thought they gave me the wrong fish

[ss_boy86]

some nice halfmoon females in CHCH i have seen but unfortunatly they wont ship up....... frustrating

very very frustrating

[maxximuscool]

I got this fighter just over a week ago. He was 5 months old when I got him and on the auction site the seller had described him as a male green dragon fighter.

His fins hasnt grown even the slightest in the last week and when I see photos of other bettas the males seem to have fins that are longer than this one even though they are younger by one or 2 months. He flares at his own reflection very readily and does have a visible beard which completely disappears when he is not flaring.

My understanding is that bettas are fully grown at around 7 months and since he only has less than 2 months left till then, he doesnt seem like he will become a full halfmoon by that point (the seller also said that one of the parent fish was a longtailed halfmoon)

He also seem to have very small ventral fins in comparison to other bettas..

Please help!

100% female Siamese fighter.

1. Head is narrow

2. Body is round from the gill and curve at the end near the tail.

3. Stomach is white/silvery colour

4. Egg spot is showing (Some Siamese female does not have egg spot showing - mine does not because it is a hardscale female)

5. No beard at the gill (males have black/dark red beard displaying even not flaring)

6. Body pattern changing when flaring (Male goes darker and does not have stripes)

7. Female Bettas stressing out quickly (showing horizontal lines)

8. Dorsal fin is too short/thin to be a male.

Most importantly, this female is a Veil Tail Siamese by looking at her bottom fin and tail.