Cam's planted thread

[camtang]

Tank: 1200Lx700Hx600W

Filtration: 1000Lx500Wx500L sump

Lighting: Arcadia "3" series 2x 150W Metal Halide and 2x 30W Fluros

Substrate Looking for a tan/brown substrate too mimic the Xingu river

Ferts JBL root balls, pressurised C02, mix n match between Seachem products and E.I dosing, depending on what works better for me.

Scape idea A few big bits of wood as a centerpiece, some swords around the back, small wood tangles, rounded rocks, and a low growing foreground plant or two. I am also going to try and grow some plants up the top in an emmersed or hydroponic style growing out the back of the tank.

Plan I am planning on doing a biotype tank. I am looking at getting all the fish and plants from the same riverin the Amazon , I have spent a bit of time doing a bit of research and have realised that the river I want to base this on, has very little plants in it. So I have decided to keep the plants from the Amazon and the fish from Xingu.

Stocking 1 group of dwarf plecs, 1 group of corydoras ( If I can find a type to fit), 2 differnt types of tetras both around 30 fish in each, 1 trio of Apisto's ( If I can find some to fit), maybe a group of Discus if I can fit them into this biotype. If not is there any suggestions of a mid swimmer larger fish that would fit?

First Issue Running the sump with C02.

Looking left to right (1-4) chamber 3 has holes at the top too allow the water to drop into chamber 2, this worked great for the cichlid tank, but I am thinking it will not work for the C02 set up. Any ideas on how to change this for it to work?

Second Issue I am planning on putting the C02 in the return for the tank, how do I do this? What device will do that job for me?

Third Issue What do I fill the sump up with? Chamber 4 will be wool ontop of balls like the picture, chamber 3 Poret. I am having great results in my Tang and Pleco tank,so I have decided too use it in this tank as well. Heaters and return pump in chamber 1, which leaves chamber 2 empty. Any ideas on what I can fill this with for buffering or extra filtration?

Thats all for now, but I am sure there will be more as I go on

[Bishop]

I am envious looks like you have a great set up in the making.

I have been up to my ears this last week in information about substrates, water flow and filtration.

I am redoing two of my tanks and thinking seriously about adding a sump. Only to find the small tank I have to convert to a sump will in no way fit in my cabinet.

I won't bore you too much with my findings but I can say that others run sumps with C02 for sure with only limited problems. I am thinking about making a thread on here if all goes to plan.

Even Amano himself is running sumps on a few of his new tanks rather than his famous filters.

The reason I believe is that a filter needs oxygen to process the bacteria into beneficial bacteria. I can't find the article, but there is an interview with Amano a while ago second guessing filters for this reason.

The problem with sumps and C02 is the wet/dry system. The problem with that if course is that with so much water agitation you loose a fair bit of that carbon in the sump.

The goal of filtration I have discovered other than the bacteria process is to get at least 10% of the volume of the tank in media in the filter not the turn over of water and I might add that you may want this media as flat as possible ( rather than thin and stacked high ). Although I am still researching this last bit, all seems to lead towards that.

I would put your co2 diffuser in the return segment of the sump ( along with heater ect ) and let the pump suck it up from there, longest possible mixing time with the water. If I understand your question right.

I also think I might get a bit of an argument from the usual, but for media I would say a small amount of poret foam in the first segment and the rest just bio noodles/ the best stuff you can find basically and as much as you can get in there. Non of those crappy plastic bio balls ect.

Have a read here, this is the thread that started me on my journey that only ended today, lots of notes and theories that need to be tested.

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=130344

[camtang]

That was a good read, thanks!

I would put your co2 diffuser in the return segment of the sump ( along with heater ect ) and let the pump suck it up from there, longest possible mixing time with the water. If I understand your question right.

Yip that was the question. So just the diffusser in that chamber will do the job?

[fish guy]

:spop: :spop:

[Godly3vil]

I think if I was running a sump with co2 injection I would definitely run an inline rex grigg style reactor dude, that way the co2 is fully dissolved in the water column which makes it harder to gas off.

[Bishop]

That's actually a good point, depending on your turn over of that last segment in the sump, for almost total diffusion something inline would be ideal but as close to that power head as possible.

I would assume though that the turnover would be huge, so you might not need it.

However drilling a hole in a bit of pvc isn't that hard if you need it.

The issue I personally have with that is customization, I like to move stuff around and experiment and also the diffusion of 1 bubble through the return, be nice if you could get a diffuser in there also.

Can you roughly work out how much area you have for media?

[camtang]

I think if I was running a sump with co2 injection I would definitely run an inline rex grigg style reactor dude, that way the co2 is fully dissolved in the water column which makes it harder to gas off.

I have never heard of that, but I will look into it.

Can you roughly work out how much area you have for media?

At a rough guess I would think 700x400x400. That is 3 chambers, will allowence for glass, gaps and other things

[Bishop]

That is awesome, plenty of room, well over the 10% I was talking about earlier.

I think from memory somebody on here had a massive planted tank with a sump, maybe Henward? Be good to get his findings see what advice he had too.

[camtang]

It may of been Simon, I emailed him breifly about this a few weeks ago.

There is bound to be plenty of people who have done something like this, that will pitch in on do's and do nots

[Godly3vil]

Yeah Simons planted tank was amazing.

[camtang]

If I keep the water level above the drop, then in theory this should keep the agitation too a minimum and then no need to modify the sump. Does that sound correct?

I have been looking into the diffuser and I just can't seem to work rex grigg set up, with the way I have that chamber. Can anyone enlighten me on that please?

[Godly3vil]

You just install it inline on the return flow hose. I'll take a pic of mine and show you.

[Godly3vil]

This is on the return from my filter, works great man minimal co2 loss and doesn't effect flow too much.

[camtang]

That looks nice and tidy!

So the Co2 enters your system at the highest point of the diffuser?

So essentialy that's an inline diffuser, that works on the return not the intake?

[Godly3vil]

No, that small black tube on the left is the co2 line, ideally it should be as low down the reactor as possible so it has more flow going against it which slowly dissolves the co2. No microbubbles in the tank and better diffusion. The thing is using a ceramic diffuser is not really the best way to introduce co2 on a larger tank as a good percentage of the bubbles make it to the surface and release the co2 into the atmosphere instead of water, with the reactor set up the way I have co2 cant leave the reactor until it is fully dissolved. The only reason I can think of to have the reactor on the outflow is to keep it from getting full of gunk and fish waste, I have seen some fancy diy reactors though where they use it as a mechanical filtration chamber as well by filling it with either sponges or filter floss.

[Godly3vil]

Even if you used an inline diffuser you would still install it on the output hose for the same reason, it would get blocked up pretty fast with crap and also with a diffuser you still yet microbubbles and if you had this inline before the canister/pump co2 will get stuck in the filter/pump and slowly wear it out as co2 is corrosive. I will take another pic soon of another tank where im running an inline diffuser, I actually really like them as I'm a sucker for a fancy bit of equipment. I also get better pearling running a diffuser over a reactor but I put this down to the microbubbles produced by the diffuser sticking to the plants where the reactor produces 0 bubbles.

[camtang]

How full are your tanks with plants?

I am not planning on full over load of plant look, almost a more is less type of effect. So would this then affect the amount of Co2 I need to disolve?

[Godly3vil]

Heavily planted, not really man you should be aiming for 30ppm of co2 no matter how many plants your using.

[camtang]

I knew 30 was around the mark, but wasn't sure if that changed for the amount of plants.

Thanks

[camtang]

A question regarding substrate for the plant geeks.

I am looking for a tan substrate for the plants. I want it to be a sand over a gravel.

What are my options?

[Li@m]

A Grit. Or builders sand.

[camtang]

And that will have no ill effect on plant growth/roots?

Will root tabs/balls be surficent to feed the plant roots if I don't use a fertalised substrate?

[Godly3vil]

I only use sand and plant balls in my larger tank, never had any issues with growth. On my smaller tank I'm using daltons aquatic mix capped with 50mm of fine gravel and growth is definitely better though. Plants look healthier and grow faster.

[camtang]

Worth the cost better or I know it grows better but its more of an extra expense that doesnt need to be spent?

I am planning on doing this as well as possible so if I have to spend the coin on decent substrate then so be it, otherwise I will not

[Godly3vil]

I would use some form of dirt fertilizer if I was to ever redo my big tank. I guess it depends if you want fast growth or just normal growth.