Varying readings of Nitrate and fish dying

[sandaz]

I would definitely be getting some Stability if you haven't already as your filter/tank will probably go through another cycle soon - with large water changing combined with cleaning filter and gravel your good bacteria levels could get knocked out.

Has your filter got good flow?

Yes filter has good flow. Going to buy some stabilizer today. It can't hurt can it?

[Dana]

My ghost cats didn't cope well when I high dosed with excel for BBA. Pulled back on the dosage and they came right. Lost 2 Gourami in the process too, but that could just be coincidence as they were getting a tad long in the tooth.

I've also had kits give faulty readings with nitrates. One put me at 0 for 2 months running. Silly question, but do you shake the tube/bottle long enough? Makes a difference.

[sandaz]

My ghost cats didn't cope well when I high dosed with excel for BBA. Pulled back on the dosage and they came right. Lost 2 Gourami in the process too, but that could just be coincidence as they were getting a tad long in the tooth.

I've also had kits give faulty readings with nitrates. One put me at 0 for 2 months running. Silly question, but do you shake the tube/bottle long enough? Makes a difference.

I'm following instructions closely so definitely faulty test.

BBA is back (just starting on plants) so will have to start dosing again once everything has settled down

[sandaz]

Nitrates down to 5 yesterday but back up to 10 again today so have done another 50% water change tonight. Didn't do any water change yesterday but have started using using stabilizer to help things along.

Thinking of upgrading my Fluval 305 to 406 as specs for 305 says up to 300 litres. My tank is ~350 litres though and heavily planted so thinking pump may not be coping? Anyone have an opinion on this?

[Adrienne]

4 - 10 x litres of your tank per hour is recommended turnover for a filter.

I will repeat myself again - nitrate reading 10 is no way excessive. What makes you think it is? 40 and over is where the trouble really starts.

Perhaps you should look at getting some fish to help you with algae. SAE will clean up BBA at the beginning stages of growth.

[calculator]

4 - 10 x litres of your tank per hour is recommended turnover for a filter.

I will repeat myself again - nitrate reading 10 is no way excessive. What makes you think it is? 40 and over is where the trouble really starts.

Perhaps you should look at getting some fish to help you with algae. SAE will clean up BBA at the beginning stages of growth.

I have found that Siamese algae eaters are the easiest thing to get to eat it.

[sandaz]

4 - 10 x litres of your tank per hour is recommended turnover for a filter.

I will repeat myself again - nitrate reading 10 is no way excessive. What makes you think it is? 40 and over is where the trouble really starts.

Perhaps you should look at getting some fish to help you with algae. SAE will clean up BBA at the beginning stages of growth.

I have 2 concerns really about Nitrate which makes me want to get it down and keep it at 5:

1. My fish started dying when it was between 10 and 20, and last night I transferred my last pictus catfish to my my holding tank as it showed exactly same behaviour as other 2 before they died being swimming at mid to top level against the glass all the time, and breathing really fast and laboured.

2. The rate the Nitrate level seems to jump. Currently it jumps 5ppm a day with no water changes, and with reading still at 10ppm this morning, water changes only seems to keep it there

I've got 6 SAE but they seem completely disinterested in the BBA. Chinese Algae eaters and mollies more interested than them!

[Caryl]

Our tap water always has high nitrates. I could never keep mine 20 or below!

[Adrienne]

Have you checked for flukes?

[sandaz]

Have you checked for flukes?

What's flukes?

[Adrienne]

http://www.fishvet.com/Flukes.htm

common symptons - fish flashing (swimming around tank looking like they are trying to wipe something off their sides or fins), one gill opening more than the other, or one clamped to the side of the fish.

I dont think its your nitrate causing the problems hence my suggesting this. They can not be seen with the naked eye. Discus are very susceptible to them so keep an eye on yours.

[sandaz]

http://www.fishvet.com/Flukes.htm

common symptons - fish flashing (swimming around tank looking like they are trying to wipe something off their sides or fins), one gill opening more than the other, or one clamped to the side of the fish.

I dont think its your nitrate causing the problems hence my suggesting this. They can not be seen with the naked eye. Discus are very susceptible to them so keep an eye on yours.

Thanks will do. Will also sit and observe all of them for a while and see if any other fish shows symptoms. I remember my tbar cichlid doing this the other night but only once.

How do you treat it? Recommended best stuff to buy?

[Adrienne]

Praziquantel in the liquid form is the best you can use. It does worms and flukes and requires three treatments.

[sandaz]

UPDATE:

Got home to find my pictus catfish dead. So 3 pictus in 5 days.

Sat and watched the fish for quite a while, and no one else is gasping, flashing, rubbing themselves against anything and no one have visible spots of disease.

Also inspected the catfish well (well as much as you can see with the naked eye) and he has no signs of open or clamped gills, no redness around the gills, no spots, no fin rot. Nothing, in fact if he wasn't dead I would have said he looks just the way he should.

Then also took water readings:

Ammonia = 0

Nitrite = 0

Nitrate = 5-10

PH=7.2

So nothing too alarming there.

I noticed the rummy nose tetras noses have almost no colour and have heard is often an indication of something being wrong. And the dwarf loaches not dancing up and down the tank like they usually do.

Beats me

[Scarletmonuka]

ouch. been watching this thread. can't add anything helpful sorry. Just such a shame about the pictus... they is awesome fish. not the cheapest either

[Adrienne]

Have you snails in the tank - if so, where abouts in the tank are they sitting late evening and early - ish morning (say 6.30am)?

Fish losing their colour is not good - unfortunately they will most likely be next. Do you have a spare tank you could start up and transfer the fish to? You can fill a tank and immediately place fish in if you use something like TLC Smart Start. This could work if there is something in the water, not in or on the fish. You would need to use a different heater and filter as well to the one in the current tank.

If the damage has been caused by ammonia, nitrite, nitrate or CO2 (excel) poisoning/burns it could take several weeks before the fish succumb to the initial damage.

Have any of the other fish lost their colour?

No one has sprayed or bombed the house recently for pests?

[sandaz]

I'm trying to keep the tank snail free but have noticed some snail shells lying around when cleaning. Must have come in with some plants I bought but the Excel must have killed them off.

Have a small 20 litre tank which I call my maternity ward with lots of babies in at the moment. Transferred sime rummy noses in there last night for a while but put them back when I went to bed.

No deaths overnight and water test results same as last night.

Rummy noses seem to have better colour this morning too.

No other fish have lost colour.

I will just have to play the waiting game and continue the water changes every second day for now.

[sandaz]

No one has sprayed or bombed the house recently for pests?

We've been spraying flies with the long hot summer we've had. Put in one of those automatic spraying things buy switched it off at the start of the week week since it gave me such bad hay fever

[Adrienne]

If it gave you hayfever imagine what it gave to the fish! I am assuming that you checked that the one you were using was safe for aquatic life.

It is unlikely that excel killed off your snails. Lack of oxygen is more likely, caused by too much excel. I have to say I still think your problems are related to excel and you are still suffering the aftermath of the overdosing.

[sandaz]

Yeah maybe. The things that makes me doubt that most is that the rummy noses and dwarf loaches were introduced after I stopped the double dosing, and they are also dropping like flies. Found another 2 rummy noses dead today.

Nitrates back up to 10-20 (more 20) today. Did another 50% water change. Still don't understand the quick changes in Nitrates given I did a 50% only 3 days ago.

When staring at my fish today I saw that one of the glass cats had white spots on it. Have isolated it, photo below. None of the other fish in the tank have any signs of this, but can't say that I've ever noticed it before on this fish either. I bought the glass cats 2 weeks ago...timing is interesting. From what I've read of ick it doesn't quite look like this, as the spots are much bigger than grains of salt. Glass cat is about 8cm long. What do you think?

[sandaz]

And another dwarf loach this morning. Last night he barely moved with his belly seeming overly enlarged, and couldn't really swim even when the net was by him.

Have a danio gasping for air this morning...have isolated him too.

Fish keeping not such a nice hobby at the moment. :fshi:

[sandaz]

Just noticed the danio has a lump by his throat

[blueether]

to me this is starting to sound like parasites or systemic organ failure (from a virus?)

[nudge]

If your nitrates are jumping so quickly could be that you are under filtered. If the filter is recommended for a 300l tank and yours is 350l that could be why your nitates are rising so fast. How many liters per hr is the filter rated for?

I don't think this would be why your fish are dying as mentioned you are keeping the nitrates well under what is considered harmful to fish but it is requiring a lot of large frequent water changes which makes me think you need another filter.

Sorry i know this prob doesn't help with your fish deaths, from what i have read you are definately doin all the right things, maybe worth lookin at dosing with prazi, not the best thing to do, treat your tank with meds when you don't really know what you are trying to treat but you are runnin outta options and prazi is fairly mild. Maybe worth a shot.

[sandaz]

If your nitrates are jumping so quickly could be that you are under filtered. If the filter is recommended for a 300l tank and yours is 350l that could be why your nitates are rising so fast. How many liters per hr is the filter rated for?

I don't think this would be why your fish are dying as mentioned you are keeping the nitrates well under what is considered harmful to fish but it is requiring a lot of large frequent water changes which makes me think you need another filter.

Sorry i know this prob doesn't help with your fish deaths, from what i have read you are definately doin all the right things, maybe worth lookin at dosing with prazi, not the best thing to do, treat your tank with meds when you don't really know what you are trying to treat but you are runnin outta options and prazi is fairly mild. Maybe worth a shot.

Specs say it will pump 1000 litres per hour and for tanks up to 300 litres.

I am covering that basis, have bought a Fluval 406 over the weekend so I can exclude something else. The new one will cover tanks up to 400 litres.

Will read up on Prazi but am holding off on the meds until I can speak to the fish expert at the local pet shop.

Fortunately no more fish looking unwell. Thank goodness!