An introduction and a question

[scottscape]

Gidday Team,

My names Scott, I have kept fish for years but recently have gotten the money and inclination to start doing it properly. I found this forum and have learned loads over the last few weeks.

I bought a new tank and some tropical fish a few months ago and fought a losing battle with algae over the last month or so (my girlfriend feels sorry for the fish because she thinks I underfeed them - so she overfeeds them, which I believe has caused me this trouble.

Anyway I have a good five years managing small tropical tanks with reasonable success through trial and error and with recent research which has reinforced my suspicions I am looking to get a bit more hi tech with my fishkeeping methods.

I am especially interested in creating as close to a biosphere as possible, a good substrate, fine overlay, effective plants and a good growth of good bacteria is what I believe will create the most rewarding, low maintenance tank. (I am taking inspiration from a true gentleman who recently took me through an in depth tour of his three large tanks and his methods in Hamilton recently).

I am moving house in a few months so am getting a good plan in place now and starting to browse for a good cheap tank in the 400L range. I am in the kitchen business so have good access to tank stand manufacturing and possibly cheap glass to build myself a tank though I suspect that buying an unwanted one may be easier. Any input on this would be much appreciated.

I am currently experimenting with plants in 25 litre tank which I plan to add to the bigger tank as they start to thrive in the water and temperature I use, and am building a substrate of an inch of large stones covered in fine gravel and further covered by a porous rock.

Anyway after a visit to the Albany hollywood fish farm last week I purchased a UV filter and suddenly the water in my current tank is crystal clear - coincidence? I don't think so. I applaud Albany Hollywood fish farm for sound advice on this decision.

Cheers guys.

Scott

[alanmin4304]

Your UV will clean up free floating algae in the water column but will not do a lot for the other types of algae. Getting a good balance of light, Co2 and ferts is your best bet. Welcome and enjoy your time here.

[lmsmith]

I would never run UV unless I had some serious parasite going on. I believe in dealing with the cause of the problem, not the symptoms. If you get rid of the cause, the symptoms will go away too. Clear water doens't mean your problem is solved, though it does look pretty.

My advice would be to do a big water change and manually remove as much of the algae as you can. Reduce your lighting period - If the algae is bad I'd do a lights off for a few days. Explain to your gf what's causing the overfeeding, and make sure she understands not to feed the fish. Take the fish food to work if you have to. Once you've got everything under control, you can look into ferts and co2 like alan suggested, though if you're wanting a low maintance tank, I'd possibly not do co2. Ferts are pretty low maintenance though.

Algae needs light, nutrients and oxygen. If you take away one of those things, it will go away. If you take away or greatly reduce 2 (light and nutrients) it will stop growing very quickly, then you can build back up to a level that you tank can handle while keeping algae growth to a minimum.

Regarding your new tank, if you're after cheap, get a second hand one - there are some great quality tanks out there for next to nothing, and besides, it's just a box to store your water in, right?

Good luck!

[Sophia]

[scottscape]

I would never run UV unless I had some serious parasite going on. I believe in dealing with the cause of the problem, not the symptoms. If you get rid of the cause, the symptoms will go away too. Clear water doens't mean your problem is solved, though it does look pretty.

My advice would be to do a big water change and manually remove as much of the algae as you can. Reduce your lighting period - If the algae is bad I'd do a lights off for a few days. Explain to your gf what's causing the overfeeding, and make sure she understands not to feed the fish. Take the fish food to work if you have to. Once you've got everything under control, you can look into ferts and co2 like alan suggested, though if you're wanting a low maintance tank, I'd possibly not do co2. Ferts are pretty low maintenance though.

Algae needs light, nutrients and oxygen. If you take away one of those things, it will go away. If you take away or greatly reduce 2 (light and nutrients) it will stop growing very quickly, then you can build back up to a level that you tank can handle while keeping algae growth to a minimum.

Regarding your new tank, if you're after cheap, get a second hand one - there are some great quality tanks out there for next to nothing, and besides, it's just a box to store your water in, right?

Good luck!

Hi Imsmith,

Thanks a lot for your detailed reply! If only it were as simple as explaining it, especially that fish do not need pellets, flakes and bloodworms all at once. Anyway I think I have gone down the over fertilizing road (failed plant experiment with nutrient balls in the substrate) and now am having to do regular water changes with gravel filtering while I get the nutrient levels back under control. (Golden Apple Snail ravaged my plants while I was sleeping. Well I believe he was the culprit anyway).

Also the new tank I am working on algae levels with is a 620T Aqua One Tank, I got a bit of a deal on it but regardless with what I know now I would have gone for something bigger with a better external filter. Oh well we live and learn.

The UV filter is working miracles in the interum - however the motor blew today. Sweet $99 for four days of clear water Blue Planet.

Anyway as far as getting a new tank goes - you are dead right Trademe seems a really good place to source it.

Thanks for your tip on CO2 alan, however that seems really expensive from looking at disposable canister prices, I would really love a jungle of plants in there though.

Does anyone have suggestions on an ideal substrate composition? The best I have seen is a well settled garden dirt sealed in with a good inch of fine stones. Fair bit of work in that so hoping for some other feedback before I go ahead and do it.

Also I feel my tank may be a little too tall while a wider and lower tank would be better for plants.

Cheers

[lmsmith]

There are lots of people who do DIY CO2 or cheap CO2 setups, so it is possible to do it much cheaper than the fluval plug in and go ones. It is possible to get beautiful planted tanks the low-tech way - check out the aquatic plants subforum, there are heaps of people there who are happy to share lots of helpful info!

I've got no advice re the gf - maybe get her to do ALL the feeding but pretend you feed them also? Otherwise, you really might have to take the food to work!

[scottscape]

There are lots of people who do DIY CO2 or cheap CO2 setups, so it is possible to do it much cheaper than the fluval plug in and go ones. It is possible to get beautiful planted tanks the low-tech way - check out the aquatic plants subforum, there are heaps of people there who are happy to share lots of helpful info!

I've got no advice re the gf - maybe get her to do ALL the feeding but pretend you feed them also? Otherwise, you really might have to take the food to work!

Hi Imsmith,

Hey thanks for pointing that subforum out to me! I will educate myself further browsing through that.

Hehe she finds it hard to believe that they don't need a feed twice a day.

[Dachende]

I wouldn't bother with c02 if you're looking to go the low maintenance route.

DIY c02 is messy and fidgety to get working right and Store bought c02 is expensive.

There are plenty of plants that will grow well without c02 , but you will struggle to get a good carpet effect going without it.

I'd take the UV filter back and get it replaced. They are really handy to have around even if not in use.

For substrate, it depends on $$$.

If you have a low budget then I'd go for something along the lines of Daltons aquatic mix sealed with a good layer of gravel / sand.

From personal experience it works a ton better for me than a gravel substrate with fertiliser sticks or balls.

The only thing is you have to make sure as hell it is sealed off from the water column or it will cloud up like a boxing day picnic.

Or you can go the route of store bought substrate products- but they quickly get more expensive the larger your tank.

There are lots of contacts through here to get cheap custom made tanks - perhaps you could look at something along those lines ? The only issue is you'll have to make or buy your own stand - and depending on how nice you want it to look, maybe a hood or cover.

[Li@m]

There are different types of substrate you can use. Idealy you want a substrate that is about an inch thick at least. Products I would reccomend are: Sechaem Flourite, Jbl Manado, Jbl aqua basis plus, Jbl FloraPro. The JBL products are cheaper.

Cheap co2 systems get about as cheap as a soda stream set up, which uses the soda stream co2 cyclinders. And costs about $150.

[lmsmith]

There are lots of contacts through here to get cheap custom made tanks - perhaps you could look at something along those lines ? The only issue is you'll have to make or buy your own stand - and depending on how nice you want it to look, maybe a hood or cover.

I would recommend doing some serious planning before building something custom. You do pay a premium by the time you include making a stand and stuff, so you want to make sure it's perfect for what you want. If you get something second hand, you're more likely to forgive those little things that aren't perfect.

[Dachende]

I personally wouldn't bother with second hand tanks.

My experience was a lounge full of water around 3 days after setting it up

I water tested it, and it was sold to me as watertight

Then I re-did the silicone and water tested again by leaving to sit for a week..

It developed a crack right up the front of the tank from where the original leak was , which meant a second lounge full of water in 1 month.

That was the first and only 2nd hand tank I bought.

All in all, it ended up twice as expensive as just buying one brand new custom made from tanks2u on trademe - all I had to do was give him measurements and he started an auction for me.

It actually cost less than what I ended up paying for the original tank and silicone to reseal it.

You will hardly be "paying a premium" if you buy something 2-4ft. It gets expensive when you start going large.

[lmsmith]

I personally wouldn't bother with second hand tanks.

My experience was a lounge full of water around 3 days after setting it up

I water tested it, and it was sold to me as watertight

Then I re-did the silicone and water tested again by leaving to sit for a week..

It developed a crack right up the front of the tank from where the original leak was , which meant a second lounge full of water in 1 month.

That was the first and only 2nd hand tank I bought.

All in all, it ended up twice as expensive as just buying one brand new custom made from tanks2u on trademe - all I had to do was give him measurements and he started an auction for me.

It actually cost less than what I ended up paying for the original tank and silicone to reseal it.

You will hardly be "paying a premium" if you buy something 2-4ft. It gets expensive when you start going large.

Weird. I've had over 10 second hand tanks and the only break I've had is dropping 1.5kg of lead on one side of a tank. That was a bit tragic. I lost 2 years of line bred guppies