lmsmith Posted November 10, 2012 Report Share Posted November 10, 2012 This tank is going to house dwarf puffers sometime in the future. I've planted it and am waiting for things to grow. At the moment I have ramshorn snails in there, and that's it. Here's the first attempt at aquascaping. I rescaped tonight and have spread out the grassy plant, which I've been informed is Lilaeopsis novae-zelandiae. I'm hoping it turns into a nice thick ground cover. I'm thinking of getting a fluval tiny CO2 system, but I've never used CO2 before. I want fast, awesome growth, but I'm a bit worried that in a mostly sealed tank, it will spell disaster. I brought some flourish excell today on a whim. Is it any good? Will it help my plants grow? The fluval edge doesn't have awesome lighting, but I'm planning on getting additional LED lighting for the sides to help growth during the day. I don't want to spend huge amounts of money on this tank, but I WOULD like it to look very pretty and get fast growth. So, basically, I've never really had much of a proper planted tank that took anything more than some plants and a light. I want this to be a bit more than that and to be very solidly planted, so any advice would be great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamH Posted November 10, 2012 Report Share Posted November 10, 2012 I'm thinking of getting a fluval tiny CO2 system, but I've never used CO2 before. I want fast, awesome growth, but I'm a bit worried that in a mostly sealed tank, it will spell disaster. I've heard only bad things about those units, they're small, expensive to refill and unreliable. How much are you willing to spend on CO2? The Excel will help, it's a carbon supplement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmsmith Posted November 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2012 I've heard only bad things about those units, they're small, expensive to refill and unreliable. How much are you willing to spend on CO2? The Excel will help, it's a carbon supplement. Don't you just buy new tiny bottles for it? How do you deal with CO2 causing pH swings? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamH Posted November 10, 2012 Report Share Posted November 10, 2012 My Sodastream CO2 system runs 270g bottles which cost $12 to exchange at Mitre10 Mega or Farmers about once every 3-4weeks. Compare that to the Fluval cartridges which contain either 20g of CO2 for $12 each or 88g of CO2 for $35.60 (going by current price at HFF). Now my tank is 100L whereas yours is 23L so you should go through about 75% less CO2 than I do. So here's the numbers for the Fluval system: $200 for the 88g kit which comes with one 88g canister. To replace this canister it'll cost you $35.60. By my calculations, you'll use about 67.5g in the same time I use 270g so you'll be paying $35.60 roughly once a month. And here's the numbers for a soda stream system: $78.94 + shipping for a regulator. $40ish for an adaptor. $20 for the glassware from the same site as regulator. $20 for a bottle off TM or buy one new (unsure of price) from Mitre10 Mega. That's running up $160 with refills costing $12 once every 3 months. Up to you though, the Fluval will be easier to set up initially but the soda stream setup will cost you a lot less to set up and run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F15hguy Posted November 10, 2012 Report Share Posted November 10, 2012 tbh, if you just upgrade the lights you should do ok with a bit of extra fert dosing, imo a CO2 system with those plants is not really worth it as they will all grow well given decent light and enough food. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmsmith Posted November 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2012 My Sodastream CO2 system runs 270g bottles which cost $12 to exchange at Mitre10 Mega or Farmers about once every 3-4weeks. Compare that to the Fluval cartridges which contain either 20g of CO2 for $12 each or 88g of CO2 for $35.60 (going by current price at HFF). Now my tank is 100L whereas yours is 23L so you should go through about 75% less CO2 than I do. So here's the numbers for the Fluval system: $200 for the 88g kit which comes with one 88g canister. To replace this canister it'll cost you $35.60. By my calculations, you'll use about 67.5g in the same time I use 270g so you'll be paying $35.60 roughly once a month. And here's the numbers for a soda stream system: $78.94 + shipping for a regulator. $40ish for an adaptor. $20 for the glassware from the same site as regulator. $20 for a bottle off TM or buy one new (unsure of price) from Mitre10 Mega. That's running up $160 with refills costing $12 once every 3 months. Up to you though, the Fluval will be easier to set up initially but the soda stream setup will cost you a lot less to set up and run. I was looking at the 20g system which is about $50. Canisters are $20 for 3, so I figure it will work out much cheaper in the short term, and especially since I've a) never used co2 before, and b) don't have anywhere to store the co2 tank and stuff, I think it would work out much better for me. If it were a larger tank, I could definitely see the value in the sodastream system Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmsmith Posted November 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2012 tbh, if you just upgrade the lights you should do ok with a bit of extra fert dosing, imo a CO2 system with those plants is not really worth it as they will all grow well given decent light and enough food. What sort of fert dosing? Is the excell stuff ferts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F15hguy Posted November 10, 2012 Report Share Posted November 10, 2012 the comprehensive should be enough, but maybe a bit of the flourish iron if the ambulia gets a bit small and yellowish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamH Posted November 10, 2012 Report Share Posted November 10, 2012 I figure it will work out much cheaper in the short term I've given you all the numbers and can guide you through setting up a sodastream unit but at the end of the day, all I can do is advise. Take it or leave it if you just upgrade the lights you should do ok But the key to a planted tank is balance. Why would anyone upgrade their lights without balancing it with CO2? :-? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F15hguy Posted November 10, 2012 Report Share Posted November 10, 2012 cuz the fluval edge lights are rather poor. upgrade them to "adequate", add co2 when you upgrade to really good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmsmith Posted November 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2012 I've given you all the numbers and can guide you through setting up a sodastream unit but at the end of the day, all I can do is advise. Take it or leave it Thanks - like I said, nowhere to store it and I'm simply not prepared to spend that kind of setup cost on a small tank But the key to a planted tank is balance. Why would anyone upgrade their lights without balancing it with CO2? :-? The lights don't cover the whole tank, so the sides and front don't get direct light. A lights upgrade was on my list anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamH Posted November 10, 2012 Report Share Posted November 10, 2012 Making CO2 the limiting factor is only going to cause algae issues. With a low light tank such as this, sticking to Excel and low light plants is the cheap option. But if you want a very solidly planted aquarium then you'll need a bit more than extra light. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camtang Posted November 10, 2012 Report Share Posted November 10, 2012 surely that would come under one person's definition of "solidly planted". I have seen stupidly dense planted tanks with nothing more then left over fish food, fish waste and standard in hood lighting at night time, just to see the fish. I am not saying the extras will not help, but the solidly planted tank dream or picture in lmsmiths head may just be achivable with extra light Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F15hguy Posted November 10, 2012 Report Share Posted November 10, 2012 its ambulia, shine a torch at it from across the room and it will grow dense Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camtang Posted November 10, 2012 Report Share Posted November 10, 2012 :sml1: :sml1: :smln: :smln: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmsmith Posted November 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2012 the comprehensive should be enough, but maybe a bit of the flourish iron if the ambulia gets a bit small and yellowish. Perfect, thanks. And I assume I just dose the amount they suggest? surely that would come under one person's definition of "solidly planted". I have seen stupidly dense planted tanks with nothing more then left over fish food, fish waste and standard in hood lighting at night time, just to see the fish. I am not saying the extras will not help, but the solidly planted tank dream or picture in lmsmiths head may just be achivable with extra light I like these sorts of tanks: http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/yourt ... Wasserpest http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/yourt ... 0&n=beetea I'm happy to just have a few types of plants, but I definitely need swimming room. its ambulia, shine a torch at it from across the room and it will grow dense Thanks - so far it's been shooting across rather than up. Any way I can help with that, or will it eventually just start growing up? Thanks everyone for your help so far! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamH Posted November 10, 2012 Report Share Posted November 10, 2012 The second link you posted is defintely achievable with what you have now, all of the tank specs are there so just copy those. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dachende Posted November 10, 2012 Report Share Posted November 10, 2012 You can still achieve a well planted tank without c02. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamH Posted November 10, 2012 Report Share Posted November 10, 2012 You can still achieve a well planted tank without c02. Agreed. Provided you have patience and select the right species of plants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted November 10, 2012 Report Share Posted November 10, 2012 I can't even see the fish in mine and I only use sunlight, and atmospheric CO2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camtang Posted November 10, 2012 Report Share Posted November 10, 2012 atmospheric co2? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted November 10, 2012 Report Share Posted November 10, 2012 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_dio ... atmosphere Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmsmith Posted November 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 Planted 2 lots of java fern and some indian fern, as well as a couple of bits of taller ambulia. I can't wait until the plants start to shoot up and look tall. The waiting is the worst part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmsmith Posted November 24, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 24, 2012 I added three bumblebee gobies today. This is not an awesome pic but you can see one perched on the java fern. Gives some scale. They're currently zooming around eating the brine shrimp that somehow managed to hatch in FW. Super cute! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmsmith Posted November 25, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 25, 2012 I also noticed today that my indian fern has white dots on the V's of leaves. What is this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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