jasonnz Posted June 10, 2012 Report Share Posted June 10, 2012 Hi all - I am upgrading my community fresh water tropical tank from 270 to 1400 litres. I thought it might be nice to have a thread where I can discuss the progress, ask for advice and post some pictures. Heres some info about what I have planned: TANK: The tank is 2400x700x800 and is being made from 15mm glass. I have quite a large space for it to sit in at my office (which is where I spend most of my waking time). The tank is being built by Greg from tanks2u and should be arriving on Thursday. STAND: I have spent the weekend building a stand for the tank. I was worried about the weight - and so opted to build something very sturdy and strong. The tank is made from 4x2 (90mmx45mm) bits of wood. I'm going to post the photos for the of the steps taken to build the stand, cost of materials etc which may be of use to anyone building a similar stand. I hope I have over engineered it - It seem's most of the tanks this size which I have seen have 1/3rd of the support. The stand is made from treated pine, the joins are braced with brackets - and most of the frame was assembled with screws first and then wrapped in plywood. Once applying the ply I have precoated it in primer - and then applied a black low sheen paint. (i'm actually just waiting for that to dry so I can do a second coat.). I chose to paint the wood even though it was very nice timer - because I simply do not have the time or the facility to sand the wood for varnishing. All of the wood was cut at Mitre 10 Mega from my plans - I only had to return once to get some of the lengths shortened (luckily it wasnt the other way around). They have a good facility to cut the wood and even cut the ply to my exact measurements. I also purchased every other part from Mitre 10 Mega - they are just down the road from my office so it was easy that way. The only tools I had at the office were: 1. Hand drill 2. Jig Saw 3. Hammer 4. another hammer 5. measuring tape 6. square drive for the screws 7. some longer 3.5mm drill bits - which I had to get after earlier trying to do the job with shorter 3mm drill bits. 8. a level I havent go any shelves in the stand and no bottom on the it either - what I did have was a 2.4metre leftover cut of ply which I used to brad to the bottom and act as a makeshift shelf. I used a solid sheet of ply to the back and sides which was 8mm thick then I used a 17mm sheet for the top to hold the stand. I could have opted for a thicker piece of something to use as the top - and I still might add something - but for now its the ply. The fron has 6 panels - these are all screwed in - although the play is to create two opening doors. The idea of the panels is to give me easy maintenance access to electrical/plumbing at all times - simply wip out 4 holding screws and life the panel off. The 2 end panels I made around 150mm - so that they can be permanently attached and and be dressed up at a later stage. I plan to use some dressing timber to clean the stand up a little later on. No canopy yet - however it will be built once I get the lighting configuration perfect. LIGHTING: For lights I have chosen 2 x t5 lighting setups They measure 120cm in length so I will be actually be placing them on a slight angle across the tank rather than in horizontally next to each other on the top of the tank. The lights are from Hollywood Fish Farm in Mt Roskill - This setup : Glo T5 HO Lighting System 48 Inch Twin http://www.hollywoodfishfarm.co.nz/deta ... win/m/931/ Now the kit doesnt come with bulbs so those are additional. I have chosen this light as the tank will be planted and I want to ensure maximum light at the tank depth of 800. I will back these up with some T8's if required. I would appreciate any comments on the lighting setup should you have some. FILTER: Today I purchased a Fluval FX5 - Now this has a 1500 litre per hour rating - So althought this should be fine given my planned stocking levels - I also have an Aquaone1200 which I have spare should I need it. As I wont have an overhead filter as I have traditionally had - all my faith is in this unit. I could have built a sump - however I didnt want to noise and I want to avoid any trickle sounds as it is in the office. Now I could have reinforced the part of the cabinet or sound deadened it - But I decided to use the fx5 instead. If I am not able to get the filtration i need - I will happily buy a second FX5 to run in the tank. With the output nosel from this puppy I shoudl need any additional help creating a current in the tank. http://www.hollywoodfishfarm.co.nz/deta ... fx5/m/928/ MEDIA: Fluval Carbon - and Ehiem Substrat Pro - I have 3 bags of carbon - and 2 boxes of media to add to my new FX5 which I will mix with some media I have been preparing in my other tanks. I also plan to use 2 500ml bottles of stability to help get my tank into good shape before it is inhabited. I also have a UView 24 watt UV purifier - now althought this bad boy is only rater for 200-400 litres I am going to see how it goes. I'm after good clear water as this tank is seen by all visitors to my office. I believe there is a 55 watt version available - so if required - I will grab one of those. I added the current one to my tank when I wasnt entirely convinced that although the water balance was perfect for the fishies - that it was as clear as I wanted it to be - once it was added it took 2 days to sort the tank out and produce crystal clear water. I'm monitoring the temperature using an electronice temp probe. I have ordered 2 heaters for the tank - and I am trying to look for a temperature switching power output setup - If anyone knows of an electrical supplier in Auckland who sells these or knows of where I can get a kit - that would be much appreciated. I just need something that will auto switch off and restart my heaters should something go wrong. IE a heather malfunctions and jams on - i dont want my fish cooking. I'm still deciding on substrate - looking to use a fine substrate as I have had larger stones for quite sometime. The tank will also be planted - and I hope to try and grow a nice carpet - however I understand it's the wrong time of year to be getting large amounts of carpet plants. We will see how we get on. No idea what I am going to fill the tank with - but for now it will definitely house my current community. Anyways - I must go and apply another coat of paint - I will post photos when I get home so you can see the stand build. :smln: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeebee Posted June 10, 2012 Report Share Posted June 10, 2012 Sounds great! :spop: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingart Posted June 10, 2012 Report Share Posted June 10, 2012 nice build do you have long arms? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antwan Posted June 10, 2012 Report Share Posted June 10, 2012 Cool build, I look forward to pics! To start off, I would ditch the carbon and replace it with more filter media. Carbon is only necessary when removing meds really. You'll love the FX5, they're an awesome canister. Make sure you plug it in after hours though as every 24 hours it stops and lets any bubbles out, wouldn't want that every day during office hours! I can't say I've used t5's before however I think at 800 deep you would need a few more tubes to grow carpet plants. Have you considered looking in to metal halide lighting? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smidey Posted June 10, 2012 Report Share Posted June 10, 2012 it does sound comprehensive. what bracing does the frame have? what is most important with a timber stand for a tank that size is bracing. As the timber will be strong enough for the vertical transfer of the weight you really need to make sure there is no chance of the stand twisting. It needs 90x45 bracing to create triangle shapes in the frame connecting the back row to the front row and ends to centre. here's a pic of what i mean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hovmoller Posted June 10, 2012 Report Share Posted June 10, 2012 what bracing does the frame have? I used a solid sheet of ply to the back and sides which was 8mm thick This will be fine Looking forward to the pics! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smidey Posted June 10, 2012 Report Share Posted June 10, 2012 This will be fine Looking forward to the pics! i think that's a very brave move to rely on 8mm ply to brace a stand that's holding around 1800kg, if that's it i wish him good luck with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeebee Posted June 10, 2012 Report Share Posted June 10, 2012 it does sound comprehensive. what bracing does the frame have? what is most important with a timber stand for a tank that size is bracing. As the timber will be strong enough for the vertical transfer of the weight you really need to make sure there is no chance of the stand twisting. It needs 90x45 bracing to create triangle shapes in the frame connecting the back row to the front row and ends to centre. here's a pic of what i mean Haha thats awesome! Who needs a naughty corner, when u have a fish tank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myfishybuisness Posted June 10, 2012 Report Share Posted June 10, 2012 You will need to add another 2 glo 48 in t5ho for lighting if it is 800 deep, I have 2 glo 48 in units over my 600 deep tank and thats just enough Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smidey Posted June 10, 2012 Report Share Posted June 10, 2012 Haha thats awesome! Who needs a naughty corner, when u have a fish tank haha yeah. "you have been very naughty now get in my tank. Clean it while you are there!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonnz Posted June 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2012 First I tried laying out the bones of the cabinet on the carpet. Started by laying out the base on the ground and screwing this together : Once this was done we built the leg sections - we didnt attach them at this stage - we just built them - they are screwed together You can see the corner legs are 2 bits of 4x2 screwed together - the join in the top and bottoms is overlapped by this leg. We then built the top - which is identical to the bottom - this is screwed together Now came time to assemble the entire stand. We did this by lying the base onto a sheet of flat ply - we found this provided a more level surface to work from - rather than the carpet. The legs were simply placed ontop of the base - then the top was gently put into place. We used these braces (which we modified slightly to attach each leg to the base and to the top. You will see here that we also used some nail plates - I was going to use these in some places - but later on removed 90% of them and used the metal braces instead I realised that one of the legs was positioned the other way around - meaning that the 90 long bit of the 4x2 was not overlapping the joins on the end as i had planned - rather than leaving it - i took the 15 minutes to remove the bracing - reposition it and brace it again. I then turned the frame onto it's side and in this photo you can see me fixing the 8mm play backing to the frame - I also braced the ends with more ply And more ply for some front bracing. I then put the top on and fixed another 2 bits of ply for additional support. These can be removed at any stage. I measured the ply wrong - and took some of the surplus stuff back and got some additional cuts to fill the gaps you see on the end. First a coat of primer Then I decided to paint it black.3 coats - I also allowed for 2 doors on the cabinet - have some hinges .. and will eventually mount them. Not a priority for now however. I will also dress the unit with some trimming in the next couple of weeks. Keen for any feedback? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeebee Posted June 10, 2012 Report Share Posted June 10, 2012 Is that your office? I see you already have 2 fish tanks.. U have an awesome boss! I would love to work there hehe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonnz Posted June 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2012 Yeah - it's at my office. My wife is the boss :tears: . We have 14 staff who work their including 1 other fishkeeper :bounce: I thought this tank would be a very nice edition - given the enjoyment everyone gets from the smaller tanks. That - and I wanted a bigger tank ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smidey Posted June 10, 2012 Report Share Posted June 10, 2012 nicely built, excellent for vertical weight support. i suggest add some diagonal braces from front to back as the joist hangers won't give you any bracing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonnz Posted June 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2012 So from the front of the stand at the top join on a 45 angle down to the bottom rear .. How many would you recommend. I have plenty of 4x2 left so it wont take an hour or to to get those added. What about the back? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smidey Posted June 10, 2012 Report Share Posted June 10, 2012 So from the front of the stand at the top join on a 45 angle down to the bottom rear .. How many would you recommend. I have plenty of 4x2 left so it wont take an hour or to to get those added. What about the back? yeah thats it, to stop the stand crashing forward or back. i would put one at each end and one in the middle and one at either end on the like in my pic. that way there is no way it can wrack and become a parallelogram and collapse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonnz Posted June 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2012 Thanks for the advice. Sounds good. I'll get it done tomorrow night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonnz Posted June 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2012 Cool build, I look forward to pics! To start off, I would ditch the carbon and replace it with more filter media. Carbon is only necessary when removing meds really. You'll love the FX5, they're an awesome canister. Make sure you plug it in after hours though as every 24 hours it stops and lets any bubbles out, wouldn't want that every day during office hours! I can't say I've used t5's before however I think at 800 deep you would need a few more tubes to grow carpet plants. Have you considered looking in to metal halide lighting? Thanks for that - The tip on the fx5 is good - t5's seem to be a very sure way to go - but I'll do some reading on Halide Lighting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonnz Posted June 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2012 You will need to add another 2 glo 48 in t5ho for lighting if it is 800 deep, I have 2 glo 48 in units over my 600 deep tank and thats just enough Yeah I was always aware the lighting was going to be a real experiment at 800 - I'll take your advice at 4 sets if I don't find another lighthing setup - It just seems to me the easiest surefire way to get my lighting sorted without to much hassle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonnz Posted June 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2012 nice build do you have long arms? Haha - I have a small step ladder which will get me over the top of the tank. Was going to be 650 .. but I like taller tanks. Figured 800 was managable - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myfishybuisness Posted June 10, 2012 Report Share Posted June 10, 2012 Yeah I was always aware the lighting was going to be a real experiment at 800 - I'll take your advice at 4 sets if I don't find another lighthing setup - It just seems to me the easiest surefire way to get my lighting sorted without to much hassle. I looked into MH and its a bit of a art and you have to know your stuff, where as t5 is plug and play and what I've done is set them up on timers, ( back on one, front on one) so I have the back come on then 2 hrs later I have the front come on then 4 hrs later I have the back one turn off, then finally 2 hrs after that I have the front one off ( this replicats sun rise/ early morning with not so intense light, the midday with intense light, the later afternoon/ evening ) and gives a 8 hr photo period Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonnz Posted June 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2012 I looked into MH and its a bit of a art and you have to know your stuff, where as t5 is plug and play and what I've done is set them up on timers, ( back on one, front on one) so I have the back come on then 2 hrs later I have the front come on then 4 hrs later I have the back one turn off, then finally 2 hrs after that I have the front one off ( this replicats sun rise/ early morning with not so intense light, the midday with intense light, the later afternoon/ evening ) and gives a 8 hr photo period You are the man - In 20 minutes of reading about MH - it sounds like something I could figure out - but I like the plug and play concept for now - just until I have a bit more confidence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David R Posted June 10, 2012 Report Share Posted June 10, 2012 i think that's a very brave move to rely on 8mm ply to brace a stand that's holding around 1800kg, if that's it i wish him good luck with that. 7mm ply (never seen 8mm before) is what they use for bracing timber framing when building houses, even thin ply like that is very rigid with side to side movements. Perhaps if you're in Christchurch (putting your location in your profile is a good idea) more diagonal bracing would be needed, but IMO having that much ply screwed to the stand is plenty for places where the ground doesn't shake on a regular basis. IMO you've seriously under-estimated the filtration for that tank. The FX5 is a great filter, but even if the manufacturers claimed flow of 1500LPH is true I don't think its enough for even a lightly stocked tank of this size. The flow alone would hardly be enough to keep that large a volume of water moving, let alone keep the debris suspended and filter it out. I used to have one running on my old 1400L tank just for a bit of extra mechanical filtration (had the intake right by the dead spot where muck seemed to accumulate) along with a 5000LPH sump and a Tunze powerhead for extra circulation. I'm guessing my tank was a bit heavier stocked than what you are planning tho! IMO a sump would have been a better option (there are ways to make them very quiet; link), and if you're after gin-clear water it would have given you far more options like using filter socks so you can remove relly fine particles. That said, if you've decided to go with canisters (btw my FX5 wasn't exactly quiet, seemed to have a habit of getting air trapped in it and made a noticable bubbling sound) then two FX5s plus extra circulation would probably be ok depending on the stocking levels. I'd skip the carbon, it simply isn't necessary on a day-to-day basis and with the low turn over and small volume of carbon relative to the tank volume IMO it would be a complete waste of time/money/filter space. I would suggest setting the FX5(s!) up with the coarse sponge around the outsides, ceramic noodles or similar bio-media in the bottom two trays, and the top tray with filter wool and/or polishing pads or some other fine mechanical media to help remove the fine pariculate waste. Having this in the top basket makes cleaning/replacing it easy, and you'll only need to pull the baskets out to clean the coarse sponges every so often. I have found the flow from the FX5s to be not all that strong (I ran mine on my 400L tank before I had the sump set up and even in a tank that size it wasn't much) and I certainly wouldn't rely on one (or even two) to keep the water moving in a tank of that size. A small powerhead or two to keep the water circulating, the debris suspended, and the heat distributed evenly would certainly help. As for the heating, is this the kind of controller thing you're after? http://www.fish-street.com/aquarium_atc ... gory_id=60 I bought one recently but haven't set it up as I haven't had a chance to get the necessary adapters for it.. I ran two 300W Jager heaters in the sump for my 1400L tank and they would hold it at a constant 27C over winter no problems. That said, it was in a small-ish well insulated room with an 800L tank and a couple of smaller tanks, along with all the ambient heat generated from the lights, pumps etc. Depending on the temp you need and the temp of the office that may or may not be enough. Have you thought through how you'll do water changes? A siphon that reaches to outside or a drain somewhere is essential, and having the ability to pre-heat and treat a large volume of water is helpful if you're going to be doing larger water changes (probably not if its only lightly stocked?). I wouldn't set up another tank of this size with out at least a basic degree of automation (another thing a sump would have made easier) but if you're only changing 10-20% every 1-2 weeks it wouldn't be too laborious doing it manually. Well done taking on such a project, I know nano tanks seem to be the current trend but there is always something special about a big tank! Size matters and even if you're not into keeping big fish seeing small fish having the space to move and behave naturally is awesome. I really miss my old 1400L tank and can't wait until we've built/bought another house so I can set up another similar-sized [bigger!!] tank. There's a few people here with experience dealing with 1000L+ set ups and planning other peoples is nearly as much fun as owning one, so keep the questions coming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smidey Posted June 10, 2012 Report Share Posted June 10, 2012 7mm ply (never seen 8mm before) is what they use for bracing timber framing when building houses, even thin ply like that is very rigid with side to side movements. Perhaps if you're in Christchurch (putting your location in your profile is a good idea) more diagonal bracing would be needed, but IMO having that much ply screwed to the stand is plenty for places where the ground doesn't shake on a regular basis. yep i allow that product every day in material schedules but it is only a very small part in the bracing of wall framing which also has other walls at 90deg, dragon ties and roof framing, angle braces, interior and exterior linings to brace the walls. it is not the difference between the walls falling over or not, simply an assistance to the overall bracing of the structure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David R Posted June 10, 2012 Report Share Posted June 10, 2012 Regardless, I'd still say that stand is more than solid enough with the sheer amount of timber that is in there, and the ply will provide more than enough diagonal bracing. If the diagonal forces are strong enough to sheer off the screws and/or buckle the plywood I would suspect you would have bigger things to worry about than your fish tank, like your office building collapsing... You are the man - In 20 minutes of reading about MH - it sounds like something I could figure out - but I like the plug and play concept for now - just until I have a bit more confidence. ps. If you're looking at more lighting look at LEDs over MH; way cheaper to run, last far longer, far more flexible, many options available from total DIY to off-the-shelf. MH is old technology and I'd put money on it that in 5 years the only reasons people will still use it is becuse they're stuck in their old ways and there will be an abundance of cheap second hand units for sale as people upgrade to LED... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.