TomGilberg Posted February 20, 2012 Report Share Posted February 20, 2012 hi everyone... my interest for native fish species has recently been awoken.... i have never kept native species of fish so there are many questions i have, dispite doing research. firstly i would like to say that the native book from Stealla Mcqueen "the New Zealand Native Freshwater Aquarium" is a must for anyone with no experience. i thoroughly enjoyed reading it. ok so now the idea that is manifesting in my fish finetic mind. i have a 50L(approx) aquarium the dimension of which are 70Lx20Hx35D, i think this would be brilliant to recreate a "rifle aquarium" and also the native stream around the nelson area which are all relatively shallow, fast flowing and very rocky. i would like to keep very hardy fish, so far my favourite being redfin, upland bully and native shrimp. i am a student so cannot afford the luxury of a chiller, to counter the need for this i plann to only keep my native tank in the cooler months were the temp will not go over 20 C. now for my questions.... a lid for this aquarium really is some thing important as it really affects the asthetics of it, because the tank is designed to look from aboce aswell.... i really would only do a native tank if i can use an inwards facing lip permanantly. also how many bullies would be a good amount to keep...i would like to have low stock so that i can keep the water parameters at perfect. can i mix and match as many bullie species as i like? do bully males get aggressive if there are only males present? do they look better in groups of the same species? can bully and native shrimp co-exist happily? what can you feed native shrimp? thats all for now i guess.... please help me out... thanks tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueether Posted February 20, 2012 Report Share Posted February 20, 2012 Welcome to the native hobby. Yes Stella's book is a good read, as are these forums. A tank that small should be easy to keep to 20 or 21 deg even in nelson, I have two similar sized tanks as well as the 400 l main tank. The small native tank (~50l) is at 21 deg atm and we have just had three hot days and today the humidity is sky-high, this tank is only cooled with a desk fan, this tank has two powerheads - one about 200l/h on the built-in filter and a 500l/h for flow across the bottom. The other ~60 l tank has WCM in it and sits at about 23-24 with no cooling, this is in the same room but only has a sponge filter. ...i plann to only keep my native tank in the cooler months were the temp will not go over 20 C....You are not allowed to release fish back into the wild, so once you set up your tank keep it setup. Your tank might be on the small side for a rifle aquarium, but could be worth a try. you will need lots of flow, and that comes with a lot of heat To give you an idea of flow needed my 400 l has about 13000 l/h flow and is by no means swift but the torrent fish seem to be ok. As for hardy fish: bullies I have two redfin and two common bullies as well as 3 small torrentfish in the small tank and is about right for it I feel. Male bullies can be a bit pushy, but not too bad unless they are guarding a nest, and even then it is mostly show and puff. I have had many shrimp in my two native tanks in the last year and a half, they all slowly got eaten If the bullies aren't too much bigger than the shrimp it might work. The shrimp just eat algae and bacteria biofilms etc About the lid, my 400 l normally runs without the centre lid installed - mostly so the kokopu have free food in the evenings when the lights are on and moths etc are about. The 50 l has the lid open as I'm using a fan for cooling. I can only remember 1 inanga that has got out onto the floor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomGilberg Posted February 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 thank you very much for the reply.. i dont think i will add more flow then my sunsun cannister filter provides... i will take down the tank start of 2013 as i want to go over seas... thanks again for the answers... now ill have to find a way to build an inward facing lip.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueether Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 now ill have to find a way to build an inward facing lip..bullies, shrimp and the like shouldn't be a problem with escaping. Koura, koaro, smelt and inanga could climb/jump out though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomGilberg Posted February 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 bullies, shrimp and the like shouldn't be a problem with escaping. Koura, koaro, smelt and inanga could climb/jump out though. so you think i dont need any sort of lid? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supasi Posted February 22, 2012 Report Share Posted February 22, 2012 Not for bullies or Shrimp. I have no lid on my tank and have lost one Inanga only. Koura will try to escape so a lid is a must for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella Posted February 22, 2012 Report Share Posted February 22, 2012 bullies can shoot straight up the sides and accidentally get out that way. They are unlikely to be able to get out if there is an inwards facing lip, unless you get a real stuntfish. Glad you enjoyed my book so much! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chopper Posted February 22, 2012 Report Share Posted February 22, 2012 I have found that bullies will get out without a lid on your aquarium. they will either jump out directly or climb out using the filter pipes/cables. The numerous times I have kept different species of bullies this has happened to me.With regards bully aggression when I was younger (about 12 years old)I put a very large common bully in with my goldfish it destroyed them rather quickly. I moved it in with my axolotls it the proceeded to savage them and they were quite large. A few days ago I placed a large goldfish in with my upland bullies while i sorting its tank out, the bullies attacked the goldfish instantly. So i guess they are rather ferocious little buggers in general. They attack my hand when i put it in the tank as well. If your able to get your hands on a copy, there is also a good big article in March 1992 Tropical fish Hobbyist Magazine on keeping native galaxids . As mentioned earlier filters used in rifle aquariums can create excess heat which radiates in the aquarium. To get around this you can use powerful external pumps but they are usually pricey. I live in blenheim which is similar climate to nelson my tank is not chilled but kept cool due to its location (in a cool concrete garage, near a shaded open window).Temp hardly ever gets above 15c in summer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomGilberg Posted February 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2012 thanks for the replies everyone.. i think i may make an unward facing lip just to be on the safe side.. i have also recently been in contact with the brook sanctuary and hope to do some volentar work in regard to their river conservation.. they also have a native aquarium.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueether Posted February 22, 2012 Report Share Posted February 22, 2012 Speaking of fish landing on the floor, this morning there was a smelt on the floor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomGilberg Posted February 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 Speaking of fish landing on the floor, this morning there was a smelt on the floor oh.. that sucks... how are smelt in an aquarium? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asphyx Posted February 24, 2012 Report Share Posted February 24, 2012 I don't use a lid at the moment, although I do have a 100mm wide shelf around the perimeter and have had no trouble to date. I'm guessing only a stunt fish will get past that. Assuming you can get them to your tank alive (although I have had no trouble in that department), smelt are great fun. They school, which is really nice visually and they tend to hang about mid depth which also gives you something to look at when everyone else is hanging about on the bottom. They are fantastic at feeding time and after a while will eat out of your hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomGilberg Posted February 24, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2012 what size tank do they require? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueether Posted February 24, 2012 Report Share Posted February 24, 2012 I would want at least 800-900mm length for smelt or inanga, both are very fast swimmers and can spook very easily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asphyx Posted February 24, 2012 Report Share Posted February 24, 2012 I would want at least 800-900mm length for smelt or inanga, both are very fast swimmers and can spook very easily. Agreed. The spook every time we walk past the tank - not to mention when the kids run past every five minutes. Mine is 2m long so not a problem, but in a smaller tank they will apparently run into the ends and hurt themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomGilberg Posted February 26, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2012 thats ashame 10cm short... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueether Posted February 26, 2012 Report Share Posted February 26, 2012 Smelt might be ok if caught young enough... I have had both smelt and inanga swim into a 5000 l/h wavemaker, they tend to come out dead :sick: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomGilberg Posted February 26, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2012 wow thats kinda impressive... what kind of places are best for finding smelt? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomGilberg Posted March 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2012 in terms of feeding what do you guys recomend as staple as a culture and anything else? may be happening earlier than expected Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomGilberg Posted March 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2012 went to a local river today and collected some rocls Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueether Posted March 7, 2012 Report Share Posted March 7, 2012 what kind of places are best for finding smelt? Most streams that dont have too high a gradient, I got mine form a stream that is about 150km from the sea but is only ~60m asl in terms of feeding what do you guys recomend as staple as a culture and anything else?staple: Ox heart culture: Mosquito larvae, small bullies live live brine shrimp, have yet to try whiteworms anything else: FD krill, Bloodworms, most of mine also love Nutrafin Max Discus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomGilberg Posted March 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2012 so cani feed ox heart everyday? because its very high in protien i would need todo extra water changes to keep the water qualitly high, right? i think i will just go for bullie and maybe a kora Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueether Posted March 8, 2012 Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 I feed heart to the big tank most days or every second, and the small one every about two days. You do have to be careful not to over feed with it, and make sure it has no fat on it. Slice while frozen or use the Mrs' cheese grater (again with frozen heart) while she isn't looking. Most of my bullies are loving the Nutrafin Max Discus I got last week, only problem is it's not cheep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomGilberg Posted March 8, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 I feed heart to the big tank most days or every second, and the small one every about two days. You do have to be careful not to over feed with it, and make sure it has no fat on it. Slice while frozen or use the Mrs' cheese grater (again with frozen heart) while she isn't looking. Most of my bullies are loving the Nutrafin Max Discus I got last week, only problem is it's not cheep. ok good to know, can you feed every other day as a general rule? i dont really want them to get massive anyway. by mrs i pressume you mean mum ;D but good tip anyway.. were can i get that discus food? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueether Posted March 9, 2012 Report Share Posted March 9, 2012 ok good to know, can you feed every other day as a general rule? i dont really want them to get massive anyway. The bullies will wait at the front of the tank wanting food every time you walk past, whether you feed then all the time or less regularly is I guess up to you by mrs i pressume you mean mum ;DWife, they are even more formidable were can i get that discus food?I got the LFS to order it in but I think HFF has it and will post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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