Substrate to use - who has good success with what?

[henward]

Hi All,

Just wondering, what substrate to use for a planted tank.

i am not lookng at MASSSIVE amounts of ground plants, i am trying to focus more on the moss type plants and java ferns that hang on to wood.

I will do mostly carpeting plants for a dense GRASS LIKE scene.

Wont have much BIG plants, maybe one or two amazon sword type plants, but mostly GRASS like plants.

Any suggestions? looking for cost effective substrate, tank dimensions 5ft by 70 by 60.

[henward]

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5063/5584300098_89307c9f7f_z.jpg

this is really the type of style im looking for

[Navarre]

layer 1 1-2 cm deep

some sort of undergravel fert-daltons aquabasis laterite etc

layer 2 2-4 cm deep

sand good ol play sand

layer 3

gravel 2-3 mm in size any colour you choose

under gravel heating if you choose

closest thingto that foreground look microfolia, latefolia, subdulata? pygmy chain sword (couple of types) novo zealandia that sort of thing

HTH

[henward]

yes it does.

i assume the larger gravel is to ensure that the water does flow through to the substrate.

how oftend o you replace fertilizer layer, eventually it will deplete.

but if i am gonna focus on alot of narrow leave java fern, mosses that absorb nutrients from the water colum do i still do that configuration of substrate?

[Navarre]

have had tanks running like that and never replaced under gravel ferts have spiked teh bigger plants occasionally but as you never gravel vax the mulm accumulated breaks down and becomes self fertilising

in saying that many many of those tanks haver the WATER dosed as well

[henward]

cool, good to know.

lighting, that is important - what do yous uggest.

i have geen looking at LEDs, making my own, what spec led bulbs do i use?

is there a particular one or just a bright white LED is fine?

or shall i not bother, maybe just 2 or 3 or 4 t5?

whats your opinions, could you post your tank pics on too?

[henward]

layer 1 1-2 cm deep

some sort of undergravel fert-daltons aquabasis laterite etc

layer 2 2-4 cm deep

sand good ol play sand

layer 3

gravel 2-3 mm in size any colour you choose

under gravel heating if you choose

closest thingto that foreground look microfolia, latefolia, subdulata? pygmy chain sword (couple of types) novo zealandia that sort of thing

HTH

where do i get undergravel ferts? leterite, are they expensive do i get them from LFS or landscape shops?

daltons is a landscape shop right?

or am i confusing two different things

[henward]

one more thing, can i use TOP SOIL as the fert layer, then sand then gravel?

what does it mean by MINERALIZED TOP SOIL SUBSTRATE?

[the-obstacle]

I wouldn't use top soil as it's not designed to be kept wet and who knows what's in it. The daltons aqua mix is a clay that is designed to be kept wet but will mix with your water column if you don't seal it with a layer of sand. You can get it at bunnings for about $15 a bag. I've used it in all my planted tanks and it's great but you have to make sure there is always sand covering it or you'll have algae problems.

Shame you sold the halides actually as those would have been slight overkill but awesome for plants.

[Navarre]

have seen lighting done all sorts of ways

and you get what you pays for

I have always used old style lights mostly cause that is what I know and can afford but if you have "new" stuff it can be done and done well

not sure I would bodgy something up...might import it...but mostly cause I wouls spark myself accross the room if I tried to do something like that

with teh dollar high I woudllook at some cool things like Si brought in or talk to specialist light place

oh and you may need to think about 2 types of light

one to grow with

one to watch with

depends on where tank is tho

[henward]

mmm

i am completely confused lol

[the-obstacle]

At the end of the day it's all a balancing act. If you have lots of light you need lots of ferts and lots of co2 for the plants to use the light and ferts to their highest potential. If you have low light levels you can use less ferts and less co2 because the plants won't be able to use them with the least amount of light.

Choose your plants, then the lights and substrate they need. Ferts can then be used to maximise the output of the plants.

[Navarre]

yup do that

used to be alsorts of rules about wats per gallon and this k or temp of light for that plant

basically choose what plants you like

put in teh gravel mix as I have suggested and light/dose your tank to meet growth requirements

and sorry for speeling and typing as some have previously suggested it is a reflection on my IQ

LOL

[Navarre]

and good point re daltons a bag would cover most of your tank

sand is to seal it in but you may still get a white cloud/film for first few weeks

little gravel is to allow plant roots to snuggle into and dig down into that rich mulm that with time will build up in tank substrate base

plant roots find it hard to move around big boulder type 4-5-7 mm gravel so like that smaller stuff

also you can get more range so can use base to help alter...slightly ...the pH of water but more importatntly the pH of the gravel and therefore taylor that to your plants likes. As most gravel the colour can detirmine the pH but colour doesnt really matter to us (as you hope) that most of the gravel will be plant infested

i have used under gravel heating in a couple of tanks...it helps ...but not sure to the extent that it is worth the trouble.

In saying that I have seen a room heated with undertank (yes undertank) cable and that worked VERY well

HTH

[henward]

Ok to recap

If you have much light, then you gotta hvae good CO2 and Fert levels to utilise the light.

so daltons can do the trick, i wont seal the substrate as i will focus on java or narrow leaf java ferns, and lots of moss covering wood.

i will have some amazons - and mainly carpeting grass type plants.

now some more questions:

1) is the above correct or did i totally muck that up

2) Peat moss on top or bottom of the daltons?

i pretty much want the carpeting plant to cover the entire bottom, how is this achieved? as you said, i need strong light cos of the lowlying plants need light to penetrate water. is that right?

so seachem has products like flourish, excell, iron etc.

do i need to use those if i have daltons? and if i dont seal daltons aqua mix, it was said above that the nutrients will free flow into the WColumn meaning that the other plants that dont root into the soil will still get sufficient nutrients?

co2, do i need those co2 diffusers or can i use the seachem product that intros carbon into the tank?

[henward]

One more thing

do i need to start with an empty dry tank, lay substrate and then fill slowly or can i get away with putting things in when there is water in it?

(i assume its easier to empty and start again)

my tank is a 5 foot tank 60 high - what lighting would you recommend, the MH lights i had sucks massive power - was thinking of somethign more efficient.

any links or suggestions?> where do i go ask about this, LFS only has t5s and t8s and mh lights.

(i mean if i was to use t5, who has used this and had good results, how many bulbs?)

i was also told that the fitting is important, you can get cheap chinese ones but they dont fully power the bulbs of t5 properly, and can be under utilised, so in saying this, what b rand should i use? i assume hagen is good.

also reflector is key, each bulb should have its own reflector and a good quality one. this ensures that the light is utilised as much as possible.

any comments on that?

[henward]

just a questions on a plant, it has little round leaves, it carpets like a vine.

what is that plant?

very bright green.

cant find the picture

[Squirt]

just a questions on a plant, it has little round leaves, it carpets like a vine.

what is that plant?

very bright green.

cant find the picture

Baby tears?

[Adrienne]

for my planted tank I used daltons aquatic mix as the bottom layer and daltons propagating sand as the substrate.

Only worth using a fertiliser base like aquatic mix if you are actually going to plant plants. Things like moss and java fern do not get planted, they are attached to wood and rocks. They also prefer lower light.

If your tank is 60cm high like mine is then you will struggle with lighting being able to get to the bottom unless you use something greater than T5HO.

Use the plant data base on here to research the plants and their growing conditions and choose plants that like similar light levels etc. There are good pictures on here as well. The plant committee has done a fantastic job

My suggestion - start off with the easier to grow plants and progress from there.

[henward]

yes baby tears, readily available?

how about if i dont fill it up to the top?

what would be a good height?

always liked the terarrium/vivarium look

i still want moss, will moss die in high light?

[Squirt]

I believe it is readily available, I don't think moss will die in high light, maybe not thrive but should grow

[amtiskaw]

co2, do i need those co2 diffusers or can i use the seachem product that intros carbon into the tank?

How big is your tank? Seachem Excel is $126 for 2 litres, recommended dosing is 5ml per 200 liters per day. C02 is cheaper in the long run.

[henward]

so how do people achieve the thriving moss on wood wiht baby tears as carpet grass type plants?

is one side perhaps more light than the other?

[Li@m]

Xmas moss should survive and flourish in high light especially with Co2 and ferts.

[the-obstacle]

you mention using aqua mix without sealing it - don't do that! You will have constant cloudy water and algae for Africa. It doesn't replace any ferts you would add to the water but it does make it easier for root feeders to get their ferts.

You don't have to run aqua mix of any sort to have a healthy growing tank. It just helps with some types of plants. It will not help moss/ferns as these generally don't rely on roots for feeding.