Simian Posted September 23, 2011 Report Share Posted September 23, 2011 With the new strain coming in, I'm in a quandry, As a Tang lover I want to make sure we keep the lines going, but as we all know it a big risk to fork out big bucks for a very sensitive fish. I know we have: Ikola pemba's Bulu points Caramba Deboisi Firefoxes What else do we have? I'd like to see us be able to get a colony (20ish fish) of all of the above for about $1k long term, thats what I feel us poor kiwis can afford, but that requires us to keep breeding Is our community big enough to support a pure yellow Troph, when there are Malawi's like electric yellows, which are easier to keep and common as mud? If someone takes the risk and buys up the whole shipment will it be worth it? Rainbow kasangas would be a no brainer, whats peoples thoughts? Some of you took a punt in the early days, was it worth it? Owen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcon021 Posted September 23, 2011 Report Share Posted September 23, 2011 The yellows comming into the country may not be golden kariza. Gk have black tails when then are small and only go golden at about 8ish cm. Its just what i think. Most tropheus keepers do it for the enjoyment/behaviour/colour of them. Yes they do cost alot and yes we have to get large enough numbers but its part of keeping them. There are individuals that have got large groups and others that have got only a few and made it work. I personally don't think that tropheus are hard to keep. If someone was to follow simple steps they are easy to keep. Biggest reason that you hear that they are hard to keep is becuase overseas keepers are dealing with wild caught and F1 fish. Those are alot harder than the F100 ( may not be but who keeps track) that we get in NZ. The story goes that there were some red rainbows that came into the country but one individual got the whole lot. I wish that someone would man up and just get some quality trops into the country. I am sure that people would line up to buy fry. It won't be chap but would be great. There maybe different types of fire foxes in NZ. Its just a hunch, but they could be Moliro/chipimbi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smidey Posted September 24, 2011 Report Share Posted September 24, 2011 what are the ones coming in supposed to be? i requested a price when the thread was posted but have had no reply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrienne Posted September 24, 2011 Report Share Posted September 24, 2011 what are the ones coming in supposed to be? i requested a price when the thread was posted but have had no reply. Its possible that if the pm box was full that yours has disappeared (assuming you used the pm). I would try again. I find HFF pretty good at responding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanjury Posted September 24, 2011 Report Share Posted September 24, 2011 The ones coming in are T Moori Yellow there is only one type that myself and a mate can seem to kind of match them with off the net but they are a very rare fish and would think they would have a much higher price tag if they were the real deal (of course these ones might just be a bargain).. So who knows! Either way I think they look like nice fish and I would be very interested to see what they turn out like, the price isn't overly scary compared to the standard retail price of the other "common" tropheus coming off the lists. Simian your list is pretty good, I do know someone with a pair of tropheus brichardi but he isn't having any luck breeding them so they might as well be gone too. It all comes down to money, most descent tropheus would be $60-100 wholesale ($120++ retail) a fish, and not many people have (or can't justify) the $1500-3000 required to buy at least 15 to grow out and have some chance at breeding them and keeping them going. You pretty much have to do it for the want of getting the fish and keeping them here more so than making money also bear in mind they can all bloat and die or just be dammed agro and shred each other, but these are the risks that we take. Unfortunately I think ill just work on my calvus and other bits and bobs for the time being You do raise an interesting question about NZ being big enough to support any more tropheus, I do wonder about this too.. They are more of an enthusiasts fish because they are more difficult to care for so that does limit the market for them a bit, plus most people I have found are pretty simple if they can get an electric yellow for $10 they wont pay $100 for a yellow tropheus.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwiplymouth Posted September 24, 2011 Report Share Posted September 24, 2011 what are the ones coming in supposed to be? i requested a price when the thread was posted but have had no reply. Thats becuase you have been naughty and selling N.L.S :rotf: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingart Posted September 24, 2011 Report Share Posted September 24, 2011 :rotf: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simian Posted September 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 24, 2011 Thanks for the discussion, Its clear that many of you know much more about the various types than I do, I am personally not too concerned about the "fragility" of tropheus, I have had zero losses, since the very early days of my colony. I even break a few rules with them every now and then... a tiny bit of bloodworm tossed in after they have had a good feed of NLS seems to get them doing some major mating behaviour. Good points have been made by all, I dont think what HFF are asking is over the top, and in fact think its pretty fair, they have their margins based on their expenses and profit requirements, business 101. I am more trying to see if we are able to keep them together, My Ikola colony was only 15, now its pushing 20, they are still not in their final home, and still pretty young, I know they will boom once I get their new home done. I can afford a few but not all of the new ones, as we all know a colony of 25 is just about bang on to start with and would pretty much secure them, short of a disaster... Splitting them into two would be workable, provided the owners were friendly. I am willing to take a risk but simply cant take em on without selling up something else to get the cash and space I need. I just dont want to see them sitting spread across the country in ones and twos, dying of bloat because someone thinks they can live with their oscar and eat ox heart. I have visited breeders in oz and seen colonies that made me just about fall over, We will never get Rainbows or other dreams in if we don't take what the importers can get. I know I can get A Grade mature Trophs outta Oz but why would an importer commit their facilities to a serious aussie shipment if one small group that comes in with others from asia or europe Or even bother bringing in other premium species if they cant move em on. Damn it someone win lotto! :facepalm: Owen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smidey Posted September 24, 2011 Report Share Posted September 24, 2011 Thats becuase you have been naughty and selling N.L.S :rotf: surely not, that would be kindergarten behaviour Its possible that if the pm box was full that yours has disappeared (assuming you used the pm). I would try again. I find HFF pretty good at responding. it was an email as they asked for in the post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcon021 Posted September 24, 2011 Report Share Posted September 24, 2011 It's easy enough to source fish and get them to nz. But it's costly like Ryan said. Also some of the tropheus adults ard risky due to bloat, fighting and numbers needed. I am not 100% sure but there maybe requirements from the Aussie side to export to nz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simian Posted September 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 24, 2011 It's easy enough to source fish and get them to nz. But it's costly like Ryan said. Also some of the tropheus adults ard risky due to bloat, fighting and numbers needed. I am not 100% sure but there maybe requirements from the Aussie side to export to nz. Nah Its dead easy I looked into it. Its at the quarantine end that it gets very costly & hard. I talked to a quarantine facility owner, they can only have stock from one source in a room at a time, and one species per tank...so unless they can fill a whole room with a shipment from oz its just not worth it. The only other option was to bounce em via singapore or similar country. That would defeat the purpose, I would get them from this breeder as I would be able to hand pick them, she would condition them specially for a few weeks and then individually bag em and deliver to the airport for her agent to process. Total time to our NZ facility less than 10 hours I did the math and cant see it happening without building my own facility...and that aint happening unless I win lotto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanjury Posted September 24, 2011 Report Share Posted September 24, 2011 Nah Its dead easy I looked into it. Its at the quarantine end that it gets very costly & hard. I talked to a quarantine facility owner, they can only have stock from one source in a room at a time, and one species per tank...so unless they can fill a whole room with a shipment from oz its just not worth it. The only other option was to bounce em via singapore or similar country. That would defeat the purpose, I would get them from this breeder as I would be able to hand pick them, she would condition them specially for a few weeks and then individually bag em and deliver to the airport for her agent to process. Total time to our NZ facility less than 10 hours I did the math and cant see it happening without building my own facility...and that aint happening unless I win lotto Yeah anything can happen but it comes down to $$'s, Aussie would be a good place to go and buy some F1 fish from a breeder the flight time and ability to go and view/choose your fish before purchasing would be great.. Only issue is you would have to buy up allot of fish to justify the time/effort and fill quarantine tanks and maximise MAF charges. I agree about the lotto thing, however sorry to say I am winning first and building my quarantine room.. I might let you do an import or tag onto one if you ask nicely though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simian Posted September 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 24, 2011 Sweet! I hope you are winning a jackpot draw Ryan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcon021 Posted September 24, 2011 Report Share Posted September 24, 2011 Yea the majority of the cost is in nz. If one of you wins it should be wild caught fish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smidey Posted September 24, 2011 Report Share Posted September 24, 2011 [email protected] is the email i used as it is what comes up when i click on your "email button" Which account did you send it to? There is 3. 0ne for each store and One for things that apply to both shops.Albany store uses "HOLLYWOOD FISH FARM" and "HFFAlbany" I did not see any PMs from you for the Mt Roskill account - OR and email. The Tropheus are $120 and approx.3-4cm in size As for info on the Tropheus. The wholesaler will hopefully give us some more on Monday. from the pic they look like nothing i can find in any books or the cichlid forum species register. some solid info on what they are would be very beneficial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanjury Posted September 26, 2011 Report Share Posted September 26, 2011 Yea the majority of the cost is in nz. If one of you wins it should be wild caught fish For sure mate, no point in getting rubbish in if you can afford it At the moment wild caughts would cost far too much to sell here It will be interesting to see what those imported ones are, I can't seem to match them with anything either.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcon021 Posted September 26, 2011 Report Share Posted September 26, 2011 The comment from HFF narrows the tropheus to one strain. These are very expensive in Europe and America. Hopefully someone can get a good group going :nfs: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smidey Posted September 26, 2011 Report Share Posted September 26, 2011 The comment from HFF narrows the tropheus to one strain. These are very expensive in Europe and America. a strain that has something like 30 variants of which none look like that fish. it all seems a bit odd to me, i certainly wouldn't spend any money on them because i could cross trophs & line breed them myself for nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcon021 Posted September 26, 2011 Report Share Posted September 26, 2011 The only line bred fish from Asia that hit Europe is the red phoenix/red bishop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smidey Posted September 26, 2011 Report Share Posted September 26, 2011 The only line bred fish from Asia that hit Europe is the red phoenix/red bishop. what do you mean? Also the tropheus are a line bred strain from Asia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanjury Posted September 26, 2011 Report Share Posted September 26, 2011 what do you mean? Rcon thinks the fish are red phoenix or red bishops they are bred in asia and have been distributed/sold throughout Europe. "This aquarium morph produced in Burundi from a Tropheus sp. Karambe has a pink colored body similar to an albino form but lacks red eyes. With the strong red coloration suffused throughout the body, this rare strain is called Red Bishop and should be a hit with Tropheus fans. " from http://www.cichlidnews.com/issues/2010oct/whatsnew.html It is possible they are more yellow than red due to the strain (maybe they aren't the A grade ones that are fully red) or maybe they will get the red when they get bigger and with some good food etc.. Or maybe they aren't even red phoenix at all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smidey Posted September 26, 2011 Report Share Posted September 26, 2011 well it certainly doesn't clear up what these yellows are. don't get me wrong, great work that HFF is bringing in some new trophs but it would have been awesome to get something close to pure. mpulungu, illangi, brichardi line breds would be awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcon021 Posted September 26, 2011 Report Share Posted September 26, 2011 Yea mpulungu and illangi would be cool but who will pay the price. If I had the money ( wrong timing ) these would be in my collection without a doubt. Most of the tropa that we have are so far from wild fish how can we say that they are what they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcon021 Posted September 26, 2011 Report Share Posted September 26, 2011 Plus brichardi line bred fish are the same as these. Line bred brichardi are about 250 euro each at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanjury Posted September 26, 2011 Report Share Posted September 26, 2011 well it certainly doesn't clear up what these yellows are. don't get me wrong, great work that HFF is bringing in some new trophs but it would have been awesome to get something close to pure. mpulungu, illangi, brichardi line breds would be awesome. I agree it is awesome to see new stuff coming in, hopefully someone gets them and gets them breeding so they stay here.. I think they are cool fish and if they are line bred then they are pure to some degree, although allot of these "line breeding" things are very closed door type affairs and they probably cross breed to get different colours then breed them back. Who knows, either way cool to see something new and rare overseas here. Yeah it would be nice to see some pure stuff come in I think people would be jumping to own them if they were Tropheus moori illangi or Kiriza, BUT the price would be ALLOT more than these ones so I guess you have to pick and choose these are a new strain and quite cheap.. There is no point in the wholesaler bringing in ridiculously expensive fish that wont sell or taking the risk that they die in quarantine etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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