Pies Posted January 27, 2005 Report Share Posted January 27, 2005 Thanks wasp. It was added to my tank December 2003, so well over the 1 year hump. Its also survived a tank move. When planing the new tank it was always the highest priority to find the perfect spot for it, hence the bommie. So far its walked around the bommie several times, but seems to have setteled. I am hoping it will enjoy the new 400watt 20ks, seems to so far. Cheers pie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted January 30, 2005 Report Share Posted January 30, 2005 Just to continue the lighting questions - I have little knowledge when it comes to choosing the right "bulb" About 4 months ago I could not look at my halide bulbs for more than 1/2 a second without going blind. Now I could probably manage 10 seconds before almost blacking out So, I most definately think its time to change bulbs. Im set on the 20K's as the effect is provides is quite awesome. Looking at the endcaps (?) that the halide bulbs plug into, it has the following stamped on them: M1500-A 1500W 600V E39/41 MOGUL E40/41 GES From the wattage/voltage, I would image it can handle up to 400W lighting easily enough, but what about 20K bulbs? Anyone shed any light or do I need more information from the ballasts to work this out? I will be calling a local lighting company (same store Pies dealt with) on Tuesday but would just like a heads up from anyone prior to then to see if this is enough info for them. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted January 30, 2005 Report Share Posted January 30, 2005 Power (wattage) is the only thing you have to worry about, colour temperature doesn't mean anything to a socket. They should also be 4.5kV pulse rated as well, for the starters. Most halide bulbs i've seen are E39 bases. But there are combo sockets which any of the two slightly different bulb bases will screw into. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brianemone Posted January 30, 2005 Report Share Posted January 30, 2005 About 4 months ago I could not look at my halide bulbs for more than 1/2 a second without going blind. Now I could probably manage 10 seconds before almost blacking out So, I most definately think its time to change bulbs is this is the way your testing the bulbs maybe its not the bulbs that need replacing but rather your retina's but seriously, what is the ballast info, the end caps may be for up to 1500w but its the ballast thats actually powering the bulb (or are you replacing the ballast and using the same fitting??) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted January 30, 2005 Report Share Posted January 30, 2005 halides are closest possible lighting to the sun - you try looking at the sun for 10 seconds and tell me if you can see again cant see the ballasts, they are inside the unit. need to open it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted January 30, 2005 Report Share Posted January 30, 2005 e39 bulbs are 150w screw in. e40 bulbs 250w or 400w screw in. This is my experiance running metal halides. 20k bulbs will only last 6 months then have a big colour shift. 10-14k bulbs last about 12-18 months before they get too yellow. 400w 20k bulbs are more expensive in the long run as you have to change them every 6 months 250w double ended 10k bulb is much brighter than a 400w single ended 20k bulb. T5 lighting will be ok for must tanks under 50cm . even SPS coral will do very well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted January 30, 2005 Report Share Posted January 30, 2005 Anyone happen to know what kind of ballast an arcadia professional deluxe 250watt MH is? Specifically, Probe start, pulse start, HQI or whatever? It's easier finding the average heart rate of roswell aliens on the internet than details on that pendant... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted January 30, 2005 Report Share Posted January 30, 2005 Most likely they are pulse start, they should fire any bulb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted January 30, 2005 Report Share Posted January 30, 2005 This is what i found on a web site. probe start will run american bulbs with ignitors built into the bulbs like coralife and venture bulbs. some german and euro bulbs will run fine on these, but without an ignitor, the bulb struggles to light and bulb life may be decreased. also reliabilty goes down. pulse start will run the german/euro bulbs (ushio, AB, radium, etc.) these bulbs don't have built in ignitors, so the ballast has the ignitor wired into the circuit. the ignitor provides the high voltages needed to fire the bulb. you can run probe start bulbs on these ballasts, but the two ignitors may try to fight each other and possibly cause a fire. HQI ballasts are similar to pulse starts in their wiring and ability to run bulbs. the output is a little higher which is meant to run the double-ended bulbs (commonly called HQI bulbs). people run mogul bulbs on these and they run a little hotter and brighter because they are being overdriven. this in turn shortens the life of the bulbs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted January 30, 2005 Report Share Posted January 30, 2005 That's a pretty good summary. Running probe start bulbs on pulse start ballasts is not going to cause fire, even in a poorly design bulb. The "ignitors" built into the bulbs are temperature controlled (through a bimetal strip similar to those in heaters) and don't boost the voltage like external ones do, they shorten the spark gap for the initial arc to strike. Once the bulb is warm, it can strike the full distance of the tube. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted January 30, 2005 Report Share Posted January 30, 2005 Hmmm, Ok then if that's the case it looks like most bulbs I could buy from the US should work fine. Good to know that's an option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted January 30, 2005 Report Share Posted January 30, 2005 Reef I don't think what you said about HQI is correct. When I was looking around I spoke to a few people from places like philips and osram etc about HQI. They all said similar to the following which I'll cut and paste here. DE bulbs have gotten the common name HQI. HQI is a trademark or brand name of Osram/Sylvania. They were the first to put out the DE, non-UV inhibiting glass. Naturally everyone just followed suit and called all double ended lamps HQI. This term really needs to be disassociated with DE bulbs. HQI, in the lighting industry, refers to High Quartz Iodide metal halide bulbs. This can be in the form of a DE bulb, fiber optic reflector, or SE bulbs. The name or trademark HQI can be related to metal halide bulbs that utilize 2 main electrodes requiring a pulse type or HQI ballast to ignite the bulb. The term HQI should be dismissed and we should just pay attention to the proper bulb and ballast combinations. The term HQI has lead to much confusion in the hobby. Pie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drifty Posted January 30, 2005 Report Share Posted January 30, 2005 so what bulbs are better, screw in or double ended Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted January 30, 2005 Report Share Posted January 30, 2005 So pies which part is incorrect???? the info posted says (commonly called HQI bulbs) ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted January 30, 2005 Report Share Posted January 30, 2005 so what bulbs are better, screw in or double ended All pretty much the same, but the DE seem to be brighter , i suspect they run brighter because the ballast are overdriving them. De bulbs are more common in the aquarium hobby. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted January 30, 2005 Report Share Posted January 30, 2005 Drifty, go for double ended. ( DE ) Rightly or wrongly, the term HQI is with us, and is not going to die. Bit like people talking KH when meg/L would be a more scientifically useful term. In NZ we do not have the range of aquarium halides available as overseas, so if you buy here, just about any DE aquarium bulb will go with just about any DE aquarium ballast, of the same wattage, that is available. That's if you buy new, some of the old stuff is a little different. Pretty sure that is correct, but please correct me if I am wrong Reef. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted January 30, 2005 Report Share Posted January 30, 2005 Reef wrote: HQI ballasts are similar to pulse starts in their wiring and ability to run bulbs. the output is a little higher which is meant to run the double-ended bulbs (commonly called HQI bulbs). This is the bit I was refuring too, HQI ballasts are not ment to run DE bulbs, they can be used to run DE or SE bulbs. Thats all. Wasp, its a term within the Aquairum community, no good in the 'real world'. Its useless when you talk to someone else like philips and say 'sell me an HQI bulb/ballast' and they say 'we don't make them'. Pie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 so what bulbs are better, screw in or double ended Everything I've heard says DE is better, not because they're being overdriven. Because their design makes it possible to build a more effective reflector. I'm not totally sure what makes DE reflectors better than SE, but...*Shrug* It seems the general consensus is that a 150 watt DE puts almost as much light into the tank as a 250watt SE, 1 250watt DE almost as much as a 400 watt SE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 great lighting faq: http://www.coralreefecosystems.com/ltg_qa.htm technical faq: http://www.coralreefecosystems.com/ltg_technical_data.htm and my favourite, a comparison of different W and K's!... http://www.coralreefecosystems.com/ltg_bulb_color.htm very interesting to see the 20k's in the photo's - coral colouring looks "washed out". supplemented with actinics or vho's helps but less impressive than i first thought. may go with 14k's as a happy medium? coral colour appears nicer under 10k to 14k although perhaps not as "crisp" as the 20k's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 That's what I was thinking looking at Pies tank with his 20K. I thought it looked pretty washed out compared to the lower kelvin ones. I'm thinking 14K would be a good middle ground. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 I guess in the end the aesthetic are in the eye of the beholder. The 20ks look crisp, but without the yellow/red light there is definatly a colour shift, not sure if i'd describe it as washed out, but not sure quite how else to describe it. The photos of the 20ks on that link are much bluer than the 20k radiums I am using. I am suplimenting with 2x white 2x blue 5 foot 85watt T5s Ultimaly I think I may go to 20k 10k 20k 10k 20k but at no time soon. I like the look of the blues, but ultimatly I am curious about how the corals do under it. By comparison the 10ks are very yellow and I don't think I would go back to using them exclusivly, but who knows things tend to change quickly. Would also consider using all 14k but there is some debate about if 14k is a real measurement, as the blueness of the light isn't the only factor generating its kelvin rating. Lots out there on the net if you want to read about the 'false claims' of bubl kelvin ratings. Pie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 I agree, after looking at 10K's (compared to 20k's) they appear TOO yellow. It's hard to find a happy medium but as you say, it's all down to the personal preference of the tanks owner! As an aside, here's a bloody good read on everything you wanted to know about T5 and T8's (which I also posted in the technical section) http://www.lrc.rpi.edu/programs/nlpip/lightingAnswers/lat5/allquestions.asp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted February 1, 2005 Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 whoa, matching your bulbs and ballasts can be really important! poor dude... http://www.ultimatereef.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=20165 probably a long shot of this happening but a chance still the same. You cant use high pressure mercury ballasts with BLV bulbs but you can with other makes??..result ??..same light spectrum?? but increased par output and increased UV output to the degree it will cut strait through 6mm glass. BLV?s will only run properly on dedicated sodium or MH ballasts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted February 1, 2005 Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 i use sodium ballast which run the lamp a bit harder, my ballast has a switch that allows me to change it to mh which does not run the bulb as hard. so for a more bluer look i just switch to mh, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted February 1, 2005 Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 Quite frankly I find the story hard to believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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